[rtcweb] IP handling and mDNS: The issue with obtaining consent

Lennart Grahl <lennart.grahl@gmail.com> Thu, 08 November 2018 11:42 UTC

Return-Path: <lennart.grahl@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16358130E6C for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 03:42:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zUbymiJ_RcYa for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 03:42:06 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-wr1-x434.google.com (mail-wr1-x434.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::434]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9FDBA128CB7 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 03:42:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-wr1-x434.google.com with SMTP id o15-v6so17265685wrv.4 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Thu, 08 Nov 2018 03:42:05 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jU8sM0pf5qXvenQwdGyEutP7Lxh5RG4rS1uOpjr0TRk=; b=EqtdFeITOZEMiNqH7Aq9QHzeVJuVD1A9QpkKF6vrLGvA/HlzvlHJSQqwNxOSJgyE9Y ELqBRTHxeor9JwoBZVNzlu5m8DxSFkUqtmM8F5+uFpkM4IU4AdIbHAWsozcKOpBekBAa VFbq2ysazWVP0URcZBfUZ1lePP6c1kY9ihc+H27Bn+qgRe+ZU1UCY6T/SX/LFEIeOGdO VGyeBb2eANGd1fn0g1Xzm0asGMziulyyi1hIGAWOKp3J69flPtTpCHbFG6BJtTnKcvDH JPCO614jHSoompMXSnikDvpRU4Xa0f7b+mG0UltVXa0TWqskSTj5qEtlbWO+PQRnb4QX TPXw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jU8sM0pf5qXvenQwdGyEutP7Lxh5RG4rS1uOpjr0TRk=; b=D1azRDe6jaxdGpwT8ZTERS38LAjCCfk+51ZGGpkbYvxnvxLdXxRGnv4ch8nHTcnlP4 1OBmOyue+D5s9CgKjV+miw/DA4q70ZmVvHdeuwh+LD3U7U4TUIs20rg+Wp+Kvj5V15f/ F4974Ty23hqefSVFXepYKkTJ6v4Dl18fDmIf2ATAgfZkH+lPKznQcZP1L/t/Ba9k+7f/ oUs6ZSpiyRazwunQgygIDvlgRSR05U9nRlp/RVlbV6GxsrZI/4BZ5WKj0tDWTX9z6EHu x8h/PC8YZMuJeG4uyBEzOgVreniGWETQEMQkPpBsrAm4XQ/76adgPAmCB1D4Rp2auEL8 R7aw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gIWEk6bWcb9BjeNv3LcCifLm9rNxdAjA68+C4Em5PbtRlq9nfiD Ue/kuyG++1FqpLU0oGNA4Hg69t/u
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5eyc+3/zjX+6cjPEJytzQs6aJIJVXDzokB2WDX0dAoDozqKKkwuQ/GvbKGZbVlSMCz+ADyznA==
X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6901:: with SMTP id t1-v6mr3946426wru.210.1541677323774; Thu, 08 Nov 2018 03:42:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [10.26.2.1] ([31.10.151.172]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l186-v6sm7821246wma.13.2018.11.08.03.42.03 for <rtcweb@ietf.org> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 08 Nov 2018 03:42:03 -0800 (PST)
To: rtcweb@ietf.org
References: <f4786770-e4f4-f7d2-8dbf-f389ca6b0b7d@nostrum.com>
From: Lennart Grahl <lennart.grahl@gmail.com>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=lennart.grahl@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsBNBFMHjy4BCADZR/nHk6jzDsEA2+dPG13NiXyBl34TtChDsZekZyO5jBgwslLgHVksQxlS 79n1lvVH0MxcI8SFifwLAAIjMfukNLGPAjEyJEQhQVpfXxkJXyZgncM2Wq+nlVCDZTiZLg/E 6jJP1zx9vB7sf5dWaB/Dt0YDHLM86EcDChQur9lrJk9K0Jiwt27Oo3B4FFfIOaVNUXgnRPbr Vw1/+O2jLg87Fsib9LP7Ghyv0Z2/VV7wJ4NLsLmIu60vcZVDYDOvcQRH4FZ76VBvlmlO+2TL 5L6yZLGgXS9GZyF3QXKAwhYqu5ouWEOUgXHch5deryjbENanimj4ntZQmF1nkxSZayk9ABEB AAHNJ0xlbm5hcnQgR3JhaGwgPGxlbm5hcnQuZ3JhaGxAZ21haWwuY29tPsLAfwQTAQIAKQUC UwePLgIbIwUJCWYBgAcLCQgHAwIBBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEPmPvtEEgqumkk0H /2dMGPa9VmgR0kmr2inGODWuCy4WXNUxeEMfY/Hob/8Ou50os6iK35TQI9WtvvlAq23aIvoJ +1OjnqekgKmavPoQ0Uf1h2LegiQNKpDGC6/S33SLitQoQyELyJCU5Ato9lIL0AzpLvr+8UaF plWbPB4Z0GfZGBQSyp0Dmdeb00sld378m9qXHByJfHjPGiDFY+el1talbCuxS87+SvwIvM05 5m1/ceJbZDjx3trvgzbSQOHMT82/Hva7cSyVAch7mJc/lIq2Q0hjoZlD9nqS6gVJ9PQnEW8z dAXXVvBoy9DtomH18jimq+xUxeBwiFRB64gZx3Yyo1CKgULzeWaQ/qfOwE0EUwePLgEIAKP+ Dw5Ow5QuITKcI+ooXZAOBCBOitdsAGrGAEORjv1VyYU1jvjNb07UlRWmpjtaZsQoC2DwfEJy OaBphhErkOVEHCvetfBq8aJ718on4A49XwyQZeyh521BvLQUj0VY5D1iTYzgNVr4Ic39duH/ 00b489Wf9sM7TwzONJOCR5pSKUzYfGUIfQIJRc4tbzOM+bzSknLwbYAWRraOstbRjf2+V3pf 46mzv8tteLnsMm91qshFUwiBfeMNZiKAM3eid80ghlEbQo5J07FOrqK1GxqMi8LQT/oA5lpu +BB6UzGP5nQ5fip95zAq3vu+Iasz1DWj6F1HkHDEHfdtVpTAN70AEQEAAcLAZQQYAQIADwUC UwePLgIbDAUJCWYBgAAKCRD5j77RBIKrpihiCACQq7ARCPSzDrtUcq3uTdP+fMHp8YCYD4UD fdt3vcw4a5JESaknUcWi7CbQrdcLT7iIFYa3pk5I8w4n2lH29uUTWwt9boDtdYkBY5a4Rg+m Z9ndsLh0fHdZM6BXv/6gWMMdGbV5+xcV0FDcXZIlHLZIriDgeZQR3cDEa9lFWUYrI9KKmdoq ngaND7jPZaMCyvn9VDOAGBWxg49gQV/x1d+DiIyMbF9J+ya4YqaSZtu2y/H03eVCawmI6SMH UzdOo+Yqen3Udcdur0KnWMUOP3FIdjgxaPoIEKfFTBy7n8rlzrrTzyrv5Gouusxj0JHMwvuh ixK1bmVy/XYqoG0TVwBt
Message-ID: <996451f7-a863-14cd-6899-45e1c9bb9e2b@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2018 12:42:02 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <f4786770-e4f4-f7d2-8dbf-f389ca6b0b7d@nostrum.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-GB
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/5LI53_BeJ0liN8orXP7wurldmUI>
Subject: [rtcweb] IP handling and mDNS: The issue with obtaining consent
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2018 11:42:08 -0000

Hi everyone,

since we were running out of time in the meeting, a supplement comment
regarding the rtcweb-mdns-ice-candidates draft and the plans for IP
handling in general:

I want to endorse the mDNS extension draft as I believe it is a
significant step towards getting WebRTC out of the blocklist of all
those privacy plugins for browsers.

The draft states that the IP hiding technique should be applied to use
cases where no consent has been requested and that obviously affects
those use cases in a negative way. This is the first extension to the IP
handling draft but it shows a direction which makes it reasonable to
assume that "consent" vs. "no consent" will diverge further for privacy
reasons. And that is something I *would* generally encourage...

However, it's only fair to take a step back to ensure that all use cases
can request user consent appropriately in order to escape those
restrictions. I don't think we can ignore that this hasn't happened so
far in browsers which all rely on the use of getUserMedia. That is not
appropriate for media receive only or pure data use cases. Thus, I would
like the IP handling document (or the extension draft) to require
implementations to allow for consent requests in a neutral way.

Cheers
Lennart