Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive
Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> Wed, 14 September 2011 11:28 UTC
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From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: "Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)" <mperumal@cisco.com>, "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 13:30:44 +0200
Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive
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Hi, >>|Well, it depends on the amount of outgoing media traffic, but in cases >>|where you only receive media you would still need to send keep-alives. > > If you are not sending anything the NAT binding in that > direction will likely timeout. On the other hand, if you are > operating in a controlled environment ICE already allows you > to set the STUN keepalive duration to the longest duration > possible in your environment, so it is already flexible. Sure, but there is still a max time between the keep-alives. >However, it mandates STUN keepalives to be used when an agent >is a full ICE implementation and is communicating with a peer >that supports ICE (lite/full). Are you saying it should allow >a different UDP keepalive method because it can possible have >a lesser performance impact? Yes. Also, it's not only about how often the STUN keep-alives would be sent, and the perfomance impact that would have. Using e.g. RTP, the media handler would not have to be prepared to receive the STUN keep-alives in the first place, it could simply just relay whatever comes on the media plane. Regards, Christer > |-----Original Message----- > |From: Christer Holmberg [mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com] > |Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 3:59 PM > |To: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal); rtcweb@ietf.org > |Subject: RE: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive > | > | > |Hi, > | > |>|Because, eventhough the keep-alives messages aren't authenticated, > and > |>|do not trigger responses, a gateway would still have to > process them, > |>|and since a gateway typically would serve a large > number of browser > |>|clients, that could have quite big performance impact (the > number of > |>|STUN keep-alives sent per session of course depend on how > much other > |>|media traffic there is, but still). > |> > |>STUN keepalives are required by ICE only in the absence of media > |>traffic. > | > |Yes. That's what I meant with the: > | > | "(the number of STUN keep-alives sent per session of course > depend on how much other media > |traffic there is, but still)" > | > |...statement :) > | > |>Here are the snip from RFC 5245: > |> > |><snip> > |>10. Keepalives > |> > |>If there has been no packet sent on the candidate pair ICE is using > |>for a media component for Tr seconds (where packets include those > |>defined for the component (RTP or RTCP) and previous > keepalives), an > |>agent MUST generate a keepalive on that pair. Tr SHOULD be > |>configurable and SHOULD have a default of 15 seconds. Tr > MUST NOT be > |>configured to less than 15 seconds. > |></snip> > |> > |><snip> > |>20.2.3. Keepalives > |> > |>STUN keepalives (in the form of STUN Binding Indications) > are sent in > |>the middle of a media session. However, they are sent only in the > |>absence of actual media traffic. In deployments that are > not utilizing > |>Voice Activity Detection (VAD), the keepalives are never used and > |>there is no increase in bandwidth usage. When VAD is being used, > |>keepalives will be sent during silence periods. This involves a > |>single packet every 15-20 seconds, far less than the packet every > |>20-30 ms that is sent when there is voice. Therefore, keepalives > |>don't have any real impact on capacity planning. > |></snip> > |> > |>Do you think there is still a problem? > | > |Well, it depends on the amount of outgoing media traffic, > but in cases > where you only receive media > |you would still need to send keep-alives. > | > |Regards, > | > |Christer >
- [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Jonathan Lennox
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive sisalem
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Göran Eriksson AP
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Magnus Westerlund
- [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for keep… Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Michael Tüxen
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo