Re: [rtcweb] On babies and bathwater (was Re: Summary of Application Developers' opinions of the current WebRTC API and SDP as a control surface)

Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com> Fri, 19 July 2013 17:07 UTC

Return-Path: <ted.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACB1621E80D6 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:07:20 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.362
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.362 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.237, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kjV7JINNVkgL for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:07:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ie0-x22b.google.com (mail-ie0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104FF21E80E2 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:07:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ie0-f171.google.com with SMTP id qd12so9932231ieb.30 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:07:13 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=NwwebRZS0kDjsKGXB9DbTWwkEh5g+mnACU2Qxg88hGQ=; b=ZfsfLeBKdnXiMMKC9FyqtVgkCHdv6zjBr1ApKxbAy/cAhNXeetc79QBTDRc0PF3YkE 7ei+cxJ+OEkMUhQMdCkYfLw6+fXr4gN/R70kZQ0zoEYC/m2sO6x2seciywGJqwLITQ44 zosIbxLc9GdflFRxMiwSWcdGAhaDGp8oLtrsoVCjtE2X2m20ivPMZG2yRvFPo3eiznnx JPcTpIwj1CtdJM0LBKOXhQ6Hb+jXxgs55CwubIF47dbGYmKhmjCs6Ju6TXPqCNcsPLyI 9dPr4XmiqCnNP+2uzyj0DGJGjL8E+uSfX4aBviyMKQlAYuuYvTFAzR9ciCH+pEFCROj6 dnig==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.43.67.73 with SMTP id xt9mr11327726icb.99.1374253632667; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:07:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.42.29.202 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:07:12 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CABkgnnXa-eTzRHcLMnHam4c+1D9kkvRwi9=V-9P43+p+pKE_sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJrXDUGMohpBdi-ft-o_uE7ewFkw7wRY9x7gYEncjov7qi-Bew@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBPa4wBS8pYq=0wesMOfL6TkeC7QGAZ8pWwOcnkhkJqWfA@mail.gmail.com> <CAJrXDUFxo8P8wxh8jX3019yPQOuwQ0eVdsFmRXsbWdWinnc5oA@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBOTKpmFC34waqZ4kA-P8t+E6yY9gX1JFCHhsBH0+CF-Qw@mail.gmail.com> <1447FA0C20ED5147A1AA0EF02890A64B1C30BC0F@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <CAD5OKxtKLMf_d=8GSMrqfNhDHPe9MFP2ZTKzZHFn9CyMr-gSVQ@mail.gmail.com> <1447FA0C20ED5147A1AA0EF02890A64B1C30C833@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <CAD5OKxvGfkgRp6tXwbOu_kVteHiBBqsyR5ixH18FMKjCNGO8VQ@mail.gmail.com> <1447FA0C20ED5147A1AA0EF02890A64B1C30CD1E@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <BLU401-EAS386F88B3FE140492B39B59693610@phx.gbl> <AE1A6B5FD507DC4FB3C5166F3A05A484213E41E7@TK5EX14MBXC265.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <C50FDAD5-492C-4A83-AD6D-464242FB4A05@iii.ca> <CALiegfneUj=kzDjR_E1=S-bqAajaPUE3f_A2g8oGriFyPhamPA@mail.gmail.com> <51E96B5B.2050302@nostrum.com> <CABkgnnXa-eTzRHcLMnHam4c+1D9kkvRwi9=V-9P43+p+pKE_sw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:07:12 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+9kkMCjt2UHFynLqwns0J0f5ZtnxtMX3ppzR66e5q_rJ9D5Ug@mail.gmail.com>
From: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e015370969b50ad04e1e05bfc"
Cc: "<rtcweb@ietf.org>" <rtcweb@ietf.org>, "public-webrtc@w3.org" <public-webrtc@w3.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] On babies and bathwater (was Re: Summary of Application Developers' opinions of the current WebRTC API and SDP as a control surface)
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 17:07:20 -0000

On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>wrote:

>
> Negotiation is a hole.  A vast, soul-sucking, waste of time.
>
>
Even if you have the same javascript application downloaded, you will have
disparate capabilities in the environments into which it is downloaded
(browser/os/codecs/media sources/available network capacity).  Getting set
intersection and preference order for those capabilities is something that
applications actually want.  You may be able to move the pain of that
around, but it isn't a waste of time.

My personal opinion, with no IETF hats or company swag,

Ted