Re: [rtcweb] Translating Plan A into No Plan (Was: No Plan)
Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> Mon, 03 June 2013 21:48 UTC
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Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 17:45:28 -0400
From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
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To: Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org>
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Cc: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" <fluffy@cisco.com>, "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Translating Plan A into No Plan (Was: No Plan)
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On 6/3/13 5:36 PM, Emil Ivov wrote: > On 04.06.13, 00:16, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> I don't understand why we would be talking about translating from one of >> these plans to another. AFAIK they are *alternatives*, and that we will >> at some point agree on one, and that will be the only one implemented. > > It has been pointed out that some existing non-WebRTC endpoints expect > to get SDP "the Plan A way". Cullen asked how such devices could be made > to communicate with "No Plan" browsers. This was my answer. > > Personally I haven't come across such devices so I can only speculate > about the reasons why they work the way they work. Still I don't see why > they shouldn't be able to talk to WebRTC browsers ... hence my answer. They clearly *don'* expect to get it the Plan A way (bundled). I accept that there must be a variety of things that employ multiple (unbundled) m-lines, each on its own 5-tuple with one RTP stream. But that is not Plan A. You can view it as a special case of what I just responded to you on another thread (now on mmusic) where one end requires that a new media stream be on a different 5-tuple than those existing. Thanks, Paul > Emil > >> >> Thanks, >> Paul >> >> On 6/3/13 1:28 PM, Emil Ivov wrote: >>> Hey Cullen, Paul, all >>> >>> On 31.05.13, 22:19, Cullen Jennings (fluffy) wrote: >>>> On 31.05.2013, at 12:23 PM, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Certainly. Could you please post the SDP that you would like to see >>>>> translated in a way that's compatible with "No Plan"? >>>>> >>>>> Emil >>>> >>>> We can start with the SDP in plan A >>> >>> The example in "7.3. Many Videos" looks like a good start: >>> >>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-roach-rtcweb-plan-a-00#section-7.3 >>> >>> Here it is: >>> >>> v=0 >>> o=- 20518 0 IN IP4 198.51.100.1 >>> s= >>> t=0 0 >>> c=IN IP4 203.0.113.1 >>> a=ice-ufrag:F7gI >>> a=ice-pwd:x9cml/YzichV2+XlhiMu8g >>> a=fingerprint:sha-1 42:89:c5:c6:55:9d:39:f9:b6:eb:e7 >>> a=group:BUNDLE m0 m1 m2 m3 >>> >>> m=audio 56600 RTP/SAVPF 0 96 >>> a=mid:m0 >>> a=rtpmap:0 PCMU/8000 >>> a=rtpmap:96 opus/48000 >>> a=ptime:20 >>> a=sendrecv >>> a=rtcp-mux >>> [ICE Candidates] >>> >>> m=video 0 RTP/SAVPF 97 98 >>> a=mid:m1 >>> a=rtpmap:97 H264/90000 >>> a=fmtp:97 profile-level-id=4d0028;packetization-mode=1 >>> a=rtpmap:98 VP8/90000 >>> a=sendrecv >>> a=rtcp-mux >>> a=bundle-only >>> a=ssrc:11111 cname:45:5f:fe:cb:81:e9 >>> >>> m=video 0 RTP/SAVPF 97 98 >>> a=mid:m2 >>> a=rtpmap:97 H264/90000 >>> a=fmtp:97 profile-level-id=4d0028;packetization-mode=1 >>> a=rtpmap:98 VP8/90000 >>> a=sendrecv >>> a=rtcp-mux >>> a=bundle-only >>> a=ssrc:22222 cname:45:5f:fe:cb:81:e9 >>> >>> m=video 0 RTP/SAVPF 97 98 >>> a=mid:m3 >>> a=rtpmap:97 H264/90000 >>> a=fmtp:97 profile-level-id=4d0028;packetization-mode=1 >>> a=rtpmap:98 VP8/90000 >>> a=sendrecv >>> a=rtcp-mux >>> a=bundle-only >>> a=ssrc:333333 cname:45:5f:fe:cb:81:e9 >>> >>> >>> An offer generated by a "No Plan" browser in this case would look >>> something like this: >>> >>> v=0 >>> o=- 20518 0 IN IP4 198.51.100.1 >>> s= >>> t=0 0 >>> c=IN IP4 203.0.113.1 >>> a=ice-ufrag:F7gI >>> a=ice-pwd:x9cml/YzichV2+XlhiMu8g >>> a=fingerprint:sha-1 42:89:c5:c6:55:9d:39:f9:b6:eb:e7 >>> a=group:BUNDLE m0 m1 >>> >>> m=audio 56600 RTP/SAVPF 96 0 >>> a=mid:m0 >>> a=rtpmap:96 opus/48000 >>> a=rtpmap:0 PCMU/8000 >>> a=ptime:20 >>> a=sendrecv >>> a=rtcp-mux >>> [ICE candidates] >>> >>> m=video 56602 RTP/SAVPF 97 98 >>> a=mid:m1 >>> a=rtpmap:97 H264/90000 >>> a=fmtp:97 profile-level-id=4d0028;packetization-mode=1 >>> a=rtpmap:98 VP8/90000 >>> a=sendrecv >>> a=rtcp-mux >>> [ICE candidates] >>> >>> I. Talking to legacy >>> >>> In case you need to talk to an actual legacy (as in widely deployed SIP) >>> endpoint, the above would translate into a regular two-stream call. Both >>> Plan A and No Plan would lead to essentially the same result (if we >>> accept that older endpoints won't throw an exception at the sight of 4 >>> m= lines) so not much to discuss here. >>> >>> II. Talking to Plan A style endpoints >>> >>> If you need to talk to a Plan A endpoint you basically have the >>> following options: >>> >>> 1. You use JavaScript to prettify the "No Plan" SDP and turn it into >>> something that looks like "Plan A". Not my favourite option, but I am >>> sure some would like to use it. Maybe vendors of Plan A equipment would >>> even distribute JS libs that do this. It would basically all come down >>> to generating one ssrc attribute and two additional m=lines and >>> appending this to the existing SDP string. >>> >>> 2. The application retrieves SSRCs from the browser, adds additional >>> application-specific signalling to it and then sends the whole thing to >>> a signalling gateway. The gateway (which you would also have with Plan >>> A) would convert the SDP into what it needs it to be. >>> >>> The application specific signalling can look like this: >>> >>> { >>> "firstStream": >>> { >>> "SSRC": "11111", >>> "CNAME": "45:5f:fe:cb:81:e9" >>> }, >>> "secondStream": >>> { >>> "SSRC": "22222", >>> "CNAME": "45:5f:fe:cb:81:e9" >>> }, >>> "thirdStream": >>> { >>> "SSRC": "333333", >>> "CNAME": "45:5f:fe:cb:81:e9" >>> }, >>> } >>> >>> 3. In Plan B, section 3.1 talks about generating "Plan A" style SDP with >>> the help of .content properties. If browser vendors are willing to >>> implement support for this then I suppose it would be a third option. >>> >>> III. Talking to other WebRTC applications >>> >>> This is the fun case and the one we should be most concerned with. Let's >>> imagine that the answerer needs to add a fourth video stream. To make >>> this work endpoints would need to do the following: >>> >>> a) with Plan A and draft-roach-rtcweb-glareless-add: >>> - send application specific signalling to the offerer >>> - have a new O/A exchange >>> >>> b) with Plan A: >>> - have a new O/A exchange >>> - potentially risk glare with some impact on user experience >>> >>> c) with No Plan: >>> ... nothing >>> >>> I am intentionally not going into how all plans would require additional >>> metadata that would place SSRC 1 left and 2 right as I don't think this >>> conveys any meaningful differences. >>> >>> Comments on the above are welcome. We could also move to another >>> scenario from the Plan A draft, if you believe that 7.3 is not >>> representative enough. >>> >>> Emil >>> >>> >> >> >
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Sergio Garcia Murillo
- [rtcweb] No Plan - but what's the proposal Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Richard Barnes
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Martin Thomson
- [rtcweb] No Plan Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Mary Barnes
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Enrico Marocco
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Enrico Marocco
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan - PT based MUX Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Gunnar Hellstrom
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Gunnar Hellstrom
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Mark Rejhon
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan - but what's the proposal Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- [rtcweb] RTT (was Re: No Plan) Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] RTT (was Re: No Plan) Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] RTT (was Re: No Plan) Gunnar Hellstrom
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] RTT (was :No Plan ) Gunnar Hellstrom
- Re: [rtcweb] RTT (was :No Plan ) Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] RTT (was :No Plan ) Barry Dingle
- Re: [rtcweb] RTT (was :No Plan ) Gunnar Hellstrom
- Re: [rtcweb] RTT (was :No Plan ) Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] RTT (was :No Plan ) Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] RTT (was :No Plan ) Gunnar Hellstrom
- Re: [rtcweb] RTT (was :No Plan ) Iñaki Baz Castillo
- [rtcweb] Translating Plan A into No Plan (Was: No… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Translating Plan A into No Plan (Was… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Translating Plan A into No Plan (Was… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan - but what's the proposal Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan - but what's the proposal Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan - but what's the proposal Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] Translating Plan A into No Plan (Was… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] RTT (was :No Plan ) Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan - but what's the proposal Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Translating Plan A into No Plan (Was… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Translating Plan A into No Plan (Was… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Translating Plan A into No Plan (Was… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan - but what's the proposal Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Translating Plan A into No Plan (Was… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Jonathan Lennox
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Jim Barnett
- Re: [rtcweb] Translating Plan A into No Plan (Was… Roni Even
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Christer Holmberg
- [rtcweb] Repair Flows and No Plan (Was: No Plan) Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] RTT (was :No Plan ) BeckW
- Re: [rtcweb] RTT (was :No Plan ) Gunnar Hellstrom
- Re: [rtcweb] Repair Flows and No Plan (Was: No Pl… Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan - but what's the proposal Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan - but what's the proposal Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan - but what's the proposal Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan - but what's the proposal Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan - but what's the proposal Emil Ivov
- [rtcweb] Plan xyz discussions; MMUSIC <> RTCweb R… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan - but what's the proposal Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan - but what's the proposal Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] No Plan - but what's the proposal Peter Thatcher