Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE"
Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> Thu, 18 October 2012 12:31 UTC
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Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:31:04 +0200
From: Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org>
Organization: Jitsi
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To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
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Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE"
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On 18.10.12, 14:26, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>>>>> 4) How does trickle ICE work without “relaxing” RFC3264 >>>>>> O/A? It seems like you really want to be able to trickle >>>>>> via updated offers that may be generated prior to the >>>>>> corresponding answer or reject? >>>>> >>>>> One of my comments on the trickle draft was about that. The >>>>> draft says that a new offer can be sent "at any time", but my >>>>> comment was that it should be according to 3264. >>>> >>>> That's not exactly what the draft says. What it does say is: >>>> >>>> At any point of ICE processing, a trickle ICE agent may receive >>>> new candidates from the remote agent. >>> >>> Correct. >>> >>> And, it is of course true in one sense, because STUN requests >>> creating peer reflexive candidates can of course be received at >>> any time :) >> >> True but in the "Trickle ICE" case it would be more common to learn >> new candidates through signalling (rather than PR candidates during >> conn checks). This is what the text refers to. I agree we should >> make it clearer that we do not really mean PR candidates here. > > Sure. > > (Remember our previous discussion, though, about PR candidates being > enough if the remote peer is ICE lite ;) I do :). >>>>> IF we are going to relax 3264 (I really hope we are NOT), it >>>>> needs to be clearly described somewhere. We cannot have a >>>>> number of I-Ds doing it "on the run"... >>>> >>>> I don't see how trickle ICE would require any changes to the >>>> O/A model. Candidate trickling semantics are completely >>>> separate from those in 3264. >>>> >>>> Yes, the 3264 offer may, in some cases, contain a first batch >>>> of candidates and the the 3264 may have to be delayed until ICE >>>> processing yields valid pairs for every component but that's >>>> about it. >>>> >>>> Am I missing something? >>> >>> I guess the question was whether one, after the first batch of >>> candidates have been sent in an offer, should be allowed to send >>> the second batch in a new offer - before an answer to the >>> previous offer has been received. That would be against 3264. >> >> It would indeed but I am not sure why we would think of additional >> candidate drops as offers at all. They are just independent >> signalling and are only loosely related to the 3264 semantics. >> >> Of course with SIP we would have a problem caused by the fact that >> additional in-dialog signalling is blocked by the 3264 answer. >> However, that's specific to SIP and will probably be best served >> with a SIP specific solution (e.g. UPDATEs or forcing early >> answers, or something else). > > It is sure that SIP may add its own limitations, but the general O/A > is generic. Sure, and we agree that the general O/A need not be used for trickle ICE, right? Emil -- https://jitsi.org
- [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" … Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Jim Barnett
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Jim Barnett
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Francois Audet
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Francois Audet
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Lishitao
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Filling in details on "trickle ICE" Christer Holmberg