Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive
"Dan Wing" <dwing@cisco.com> Fri, 16 September 2011 19:32 UTC
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From: Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com>
To: 'Dzonatas Sol' <dzonatas@gmail.com>, rtcweb@ietf.org
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Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 12:34:26 -0700
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive
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> -----Original Message----- > From: rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Dzonatas Sol > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 11:18 AM > To: rtcweb@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive > > On 09/16/2011 11:04 AM, Dan Wing wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On > >> Behalf Of Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal) > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:24 AM > >> To: Christer Holmberg; rtcweb@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive > >> > >> |Well, it depends on the amount of outgoing media traffic, > >> |but in cases where you only receive media you would still > >> |need to send keep-alives. > >> > >> If you are not sending anything the NAT binding in that direction > will > >> likely timeout. On the other hand, if you are operating in a > controlled > >> environment ICE already allows you to set the STUN keepalive > duration > >> to > >> the longest duration possible in your environment, so it is already > >> flexible. > >> > > PCP can allow the client to know and control the NAT's UDP timeout, > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pcp-base-13#section-7.3. > > > > -d > > > > NAT64 doesn't have to worry about UDP content or timeouts like in IPv4 > when set up correctly, yet we can' expect everybody to use such > configuration we consider correct. There are two types of NAT64: stateless (which has the characteristic you describe) and stateful (which would require keepalive traffic for all the reasons today's NAPT44 devices require keepalives). I don't know what is meant by "when set up correctly". -d > +1 for OAuth MAC for this reason. > > > > > > >> However, it mandates STUN keepalives to be used when an agent is a > full > >> ICE implementation and is communicating with a peer that supports > ICE > >> (lite/full). Are you saying it should allow a different UDP > keepalive > >> method because it can possible have a lesser performance impact? > >> > >> Muthu > >> > >> |-----Original Message----- > >> |From: Christer Holmberg [mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com] > >> |Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 3:59 PM > >> |To: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal); rtcweb@ietf.org > >> |Subject: RE: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive > >> | > >> | > >> |Hi, > >> | > >> |>|Because, eventhough the keep-alives messages aren't > authenticated, > >> and > >> |>|do not trigger responses, a gateway would still have to > >> |>|process them, and since a gateway typically would serve a large > >> number of browser > >> |>|clients, that could have quite big performance impact (the number > of > >> |>|STUN keep-alives sent per session of course depend on how much > other > >> |>|media traffic there is, but still). > >> |> > >> |>STUN keepalives are required by ICE only in the absence of > >> |>media traffic. > >> | > >> |Yes. That's what I meant with the: > >> | > >> | "(the number of STUN keep-alives sent per session of course > >> depend on how much other media > >> |traffic there is, but still)" > >> | > >> |...statement :) > >> | > >> |>Here are the snip from RFC 5245: > >> |> > >> |><snip> > >> |>10. Keepalives > >> |> > >> |>If there has been no packet sent on the candidate pair ICE is > >> |>using for a media component for Tr seconds (where packets > >> |>include those defined for the component (RTP or RTCP) and > >> |>previous keepalives), an agent MUST generate a keepalive on > >> |>that pair. Tr SHOULD be configurable and SHOULD have a > >> |>default of 15 seconds. Tr MUST NOT be configured to less > >> |>than 15 seconds. > >> |></snip> > >> |> > >> |><snip> > >> |>20.2.3. Keepalives > >> |> > >> |>STUN keepalives (in the form of STUN Binding Indications) are > >> |>sent in the middle of a media session. However, they are > >> |>sent only in the absence of actual media traffic. In > >> |>deployments that are not utilizing Voice Activity Detection > >> |>(VAD), the keepalives are never used and there is no increase > >> |>in bandwidth usage. When VAD is being used, keepalives will > >> |>be sent during silence periods. This involves a single > >> |>packet every 15-20 seconds, far less than the packet every > >> |>20-30 ms that is sent when there is voice. Therefore, > >> |>keepalives don't have any real impact on capacity planning. > >> |></snip> > >> |> > >> |>Do you think there is still a problem? > >> | > >> |Well, it depends on the amount of outgoing media traffic, but in > cases > >> where you only receive media > >> |you would still need to send keep-alives. > >> | > >> |Regards, > >> | > >> |Christer > >> _______________________________________________ > >> rtcweb mailing list > >> rtcweb@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > rtcweb mailing list > > rtcweb@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > > > > > -- > > --- > <i>The wheel.</i metro-link=t dzonatasolyndra> > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
- [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Jonathan Lennox
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive sisalem
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Göran Eriksson AP
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Magnus Westerlund
- [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for keep… Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Michael Tüxen
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo