Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCWeb
cowwoc <cowwoc@bbs.darktech.org> Tue, 03 December 2013 15:57 UTC
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Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2013 10:57:23 -0500
From: cowwoc <cowwoc@bbs.darktech.org>
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To: Bjoern Hoehrmann <derhoermi@gmx.net>
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCWeb
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On 03/12/2013 8:15 AM, Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote: > * cowwoc wrote: >> I'd like to point you to http://www.netindex.com/upload/allcountries/ >> for two reasons: >> >> 1. It states that Germany has an average upload rate of 3.13Mbps. >> 2. It shows that upload speeds are increasing over time. > That seems extremely unlikely to me, basic offerings like Vodafone's > "DSL 6000" come with around 640 kbps upstream, Telekom's "Call & Surf > Basic" comes with "up to 1 mbps", where I am right now the best DSL > available has less than 384 kbps *downstream*; that does not add up > to a situation where the median household has 3 mbps without extra- > ordinary evidence ("average" over ones that care to test can naturally > be expected to be much higher than the median over the population.) > >> H.261 is meant as a fallback only in the case that the market cannot >> agree to upgrade to VP8 or H.264 at runtime. If a sizable portion of the >> market cannot agree at runtime, what makes you believe that that same >> sizable portion can agree on a MTI codec? And a final question, in case >> you disagree with everything I've written so far: How do you advocate we >> proceed in light of the fact that we already tried to (and failed) to >> reach consensus around VP8 and H.264? > If I were to believe VP8 and H.264 are not royality-free options that > can be used in Free implementations of the protocol then the mandatory- > to-implement codec is likely their only option to communicate with > commercial implementations. If the only option is "not good enough", I > might prefer the Working Group say so instead of offering a fig leaf. Bjoern, I don't understand. What is the practical benefit of declaring "No MTI" (as you seem to be implying) over considering H.261 as MTI? 1. What you could accomplish with with "No MTI" you could accomplish with H.261 as MTI (and more). 2. What might not be good enough for one business/use-case will be for another. Why penalize all use-cases? 3. What might not be good enough in Germany (today) might be good enough in North America and Asia. Why penalize the rest of the world? Things *will* improve in Germany (supply will follow demand). Up until recently, Canada was stuck with 1MBps upload rates for over a decade. Out of nowhere we started getting upload rates of 10MBps, 20MBps and even 50MBps. The technology is there. The only thing holding it back are politics (monopolies in our case) and demand. Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Ted Lemon
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Ted Lemon
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Dave Crocker
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Eliot Lear
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Ted Lemon
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Ted Lemon
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Michael Richardson
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Roger Jørgensen
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Roberto Peon
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Mary Barnes
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Max Jonas Werner
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… John Leslie
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Dave Crocker
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Sam Hartman
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Richard Shockey
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCW… Randell Jesup