Re: [rtcweb] Clarification on simulcast and RID and RepairedRtpStreamId

Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> Tue, 04 December 2018 09:58 UTC

Return-Path: <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5981A130E27 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 01:58:26 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.758
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.758 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1.46, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=E/jKi4vh; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=CpFxpjgy
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q3T7BeSrP1L6 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 01:58:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5602112785F for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 01:58:24 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1543917502; x=1546509502; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=yCx9DyhQxwGW78khZjWxJNq11VU4EGE9BQmx/+ovfIk=; b=E/jKi4vhF+bkhnaO2Wjb24tz+LWAu/t2E908yJgT8IVSLMaVTHbaQEt6x4q8alDH Lm/dLYRNxbDOVPkoCZ/TO4sWR98uQwKGzWRUakbwF0nPFse9uNkE6F6dviYEAcNj 4vZ5n/Ffj2ntVPpfp3ELCQRU31RO7Br50WhqnIUBGT0=;
X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-39c4e9e0000043c4-1d-5c064fbe58e4
Received: from ESESSMB504.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.122]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 5B.61.17348.EBF460C5; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 10:58:22 +0100 (CET)
Received: from ESESBMR505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.201) by ESESSMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.165) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 10:57:51 +0100
Received: from ESESBMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.168) by ESESBMR505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.201) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 10:57:51 +0100
Received: from EUR02-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (153.88.183.157) by ESESBMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 10:57:51 +0100
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=nr0YdrE1G/R/RC88rfjOT71/MklVI05/j1HFNkNZBXA=; b=CpFxpjgyT9DEYjJVcsH89wG+qKYvOiKhXn4X9Eu+linDlAlUKrq/jmcSlM3zTy8O7+t9DXqkfsK4rEjupH54ROiOJOq737YYpFSzVTEu5xs/msvipdcE1cf6ZF3hHKyyvQy0fgTiKJ2iIXnjR5S1VR5zZuM40GiSKSO/oe/+ryM=
Received: from AM0PR07MB4979.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.178.19.28) by AM0PR07MB3876.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.134.82.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1404.11; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 09:57:50 +0000
Received: from AM0PR07MB4979.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::edb0:806b:dd18:8405]) by AM0PR07MB4979.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::edb0:806b:dd18:8405%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1404.016; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 09:57:50 +0000
From: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
To: Sergio Garcia Murillo <sergio.garcia.murillo@gmail.com>, =?iso-8859-1?Q?I=F1aki_Baz_Castillo?= <ibc@aliax.net>
CC: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] Clarification on simulcast and RID and RepairedRtpStreamId
Thread-Index: AQHUiw/JPEl6adMtxEO6Fn3OSoL1jw==
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 09:57:50 +0000
Message-ID: <AM0PR07MB49796A63E10D9CC57E1DD20F95AF0@AM0PR07MB4979.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CALiegfm=++8o=Ou1Tgu6bxyiVdw2ysgM5HnjRqi2hJBoy476yg@mail.gmail.com> <AM0PR07MB4979C0EC8765FA2DF70E613395AE0@AM0PR07MB4979.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <45beb8d6-6578-dc98-4ff7-1be7a55c0687@gmail.com> <AM0PR07MB4979571D1B2933258A18544A95AE0@AM0PR07MB4979.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <13ff90af-d62e-2f47-3ccc-16ca4e9e3cac@gmail.com> <CALiegfnh-_mMXpmwWnjjX=iayN0WaveHZOHuMrXk9=Tfgx2Z+Q@mail.gmail.com> <2613a4ff-0855-4f78-d3f0-9f9aaaf9ecdb@gmail.com> <CALiegf=ROnLmc388vDO3BJZdzO8q=Sy9mP6F4xTY7rGVZ9CtyQ@mail.gmail.com> <1af3105f-5e66-548d-cb31-6aaf9f2cd0b4@gmail.com>
Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [192.176.1.83]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM0PR07MB3876; 6:gUKBvBf4FA30LgnBeq+K3fsPol3gQ3zdeqBFaZi1q6n07olRqsvE7xZndo5tCwWJLfgMYDQQiOPzQlO44zL5A2FBlC9ujCA7Qbl6lRzHyYRS1/D/DPyfgFP0HalMzV0IMSzSRskT4CW41x83VzufFjuWLuMKuetqSIUoq/9mFGRc5b9rYi9xnAmm/GYW0l/+hsh8tQIpVv4V518kGBlxpC7ktjtfGM4IySQwoDZ4ZIJQDZdm4aHNIl/exye7Q/UCWot8xXcCxKcNPxuIhE5gZ4FEyWWRnkpK73c+PfO0FwO0XqzaeXWIrdIRMMti1yauKh4XNCnwznB5rCzPGT1TkAycRkR5v6Hy7sfB5NBwM265ukpBNM3oSgBHF7qsyhBLBWzSSyhuPEdbmSiCQkjhY19FCa4Vr4KHq1DFOUSa8sj/kbHD/UqeaVjJnniQ32eoACxfJDKZC++zVSWiGCnDpA==; 5:WxomRtLHIOBWSlVhhaA+EAB4bRUsbSJ4R6p9YK4b3Pw4epzSTqb4Sb1l/0yCDnlmzKLFl5e9mlm/ChzdHe4leCI0ojDJy9jvVW5TI412O0m6O5MxPCkZkxchpWmmIlriB4Tkua7r3S2A7qs3D+38xjgtcwIjfOJpwrsm5VekrOs=; 7:tRPQL0m6hXVSLr3B7WiG1viH9NMUtQsNdMHImv2NUXQSufr375A0dbREnbTVKcUfqvnSvJq7rDaf23P6JZVWXFToWfwio81P4TqqG6d7+ABohHu4eGAbL8ymXqR26RdrXlfycCl268Hgx9yqEAYJBQ==
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2a408ac4-d415-4dfa-f2e1-08d659cef3ba
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390098)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600074)(711020)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:AM0PR07MB3876;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR07MB3876:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com;
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <AM0PR07MB3876C9B4CE452C58282F294595AF0@AM0PR07MB3876.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(8211001083)(6040522)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(10201501046)(3002001)(3231455)(999002)(944501505)(52105112)(93006095)(93001095)(148016)(149066)(150057)(6041310)(20161123558120)(20161123564045)(20161123560045)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123562045)(201708071742011)(7699051)(76991095); SRVR:AM0PR07MB3876; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM0PR07MB3876;
x-forefront-prvs: 0876988AF0
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(396003)(366004)(376002)(346002)(39860400002)(136003)(189003)(199004)(6246003)(9686003)(53936002)(68736007)(305945005)(4326008)(7736002)(74316002)(66066001)(105586002)(229853002)(316002)(5660300001)(99286004)(446003)(110136005)(476003)(7696005)(102836004)(44832011)(97736004)(6506007)(76176011)(53546011)(14444005)(86362001)(256004)(3846002)(39060400002)(6116002)(486006)(55016002)(8936002)(2906002)(26005)(186003)(93886005)(478600001)(25786009)(8676002)(81156014)(81166006)(14454004)(33656002)(71200400001)(71190400001)(66574009)(106356001)(6436002)(156123004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:AM0PR07MB3876; H:AM0PR07MB4979.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: GAvhoUVbRW5l7xTic/92mmaFtqIuHQVuOQi0yomr3p5C418nQ6zFqHuQQF6zgRXoU8O/91jEIN98GjjhfM+d/ff3IBSXPTnTttWrf1CtKrvUqa/kDkU2quCyXks1icoTXWePEL4SjY3vKzQl7K9od/meOui4U5+t2okr7J1j+qWLwNx84wOxlXRb4pSUPfLZ1xlinXp6jnUT6k2OukViXHX+HZe2+1Tva9kbFXBfLnsZC1XDUreB9E4La78f02M4NT/MvcmxrIe9nu/UyYPImUsvKBDPEk+Oh2wuEASj0VnOfOZfQpNHDar9ADKD3XhnXyohGwrt/twRCTDhe7bbttlfVt+AME6ERWByZCFqj+U=
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2a408ac4-d415-4dfa-f2e1-08d659cef3ba
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Dec 2018 09:57:50.5903 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR07MB3876
X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SXUxSYRjH93IOcCRpR9J8wtGKMjdLItcFlbqs1lgrK+uiHKWUJyUVHYdc 2pa4tj5wTrZiTTK1JC9MxNKmNjPDvNAhkh/NinCmiMZFdVHZSgw4tHX3e/b/eJ53ewlMUMMW Eiq1ltKolYViDg+vPdVVntR3lKOQttaJZHf7UmQW/w2uzOPvwvZicofuC1feY/rIlZvNv1jH sCxeSi5VqCqlNNvTcnj5Va3jeElb1OVes5OrQ49X61EEAeROaP80xQmygHyNwGrcpEe8AH9H UNN4ncsIgWFy+SQjNLFgoNvEDQ44acCg09KMMYqBBR+WF1jMMINg5NscK5jnkDJ4t1QZWhJN auHeCzs7yBiZAK4mR6CKINaQmdBuQ4zlBOjq3WG7BAbHpkN2nNwMk233sSDzSQV4LC/ZzC4n DpaejlAYkSKY/unGmf5YeD/XwGIeSoK5dxRjOAYWZ/1shjeAy2jhMiyCsYYqFCwF8i0HbnWP 44yQBF+NxnD4COhHZjmMyYnAOHMtnE4ES1U7i7lCCVOVnvDmAnjUUR/m9dBSPRMuHcVgXKcy IKnpv2MZlsCU8Q6H4a3Q/MCHmUKvjoKh2jm8EeEtKIam6HNFecnJEkqjOk/TxWqJmtI+RYFv 8qrzt7QbLXrTbYgkkDiS71tiKwRsZSldVmRDQGDiaL5rC0ch4Ocqy8opTXG25lIhRdtQHIGL Y/myjI4sAZmn1FIFFFVCaf6pLCJCqEPSN/seWsfshs8NkU3W+V2AnXEJsxOHPVx/XPGFAxlX VxZy9t+WTUQOYhPD6Yr4NIImhQPeyf4fu7uS8u0r9udrnWdbMweG+MnPqq+kxR9+MuzWnZbb fN51Nx1/xKkpe7xGPGGju6TikPagQzR/cZW1d1v/8exUg0hXBxU+vRin85U7EjENrfwLmFmX JSIDAAA=
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/8ukgLzQLOx_ACyx_VvIe3exE0Ys>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Clarification on simulcast and RID and RepairedRtpStreamId
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2018 09:58:26 -0000

On 2018-12-04 10:35, Sergio Garcia Murillo wrote:
> On 03/12/2018 22:26, Iñaki Baz Castillo wrote:
>> On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 at 22:22, Sergio Garcia Murillo
>> <sergio.garcia.murillo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> My point is that there is a single source in the transceiver/MID why
>>> should we add default RID and waste 2 more bytes in each media and rtx
>>> packet?
>> Regardless what browsers do today, both MID and RID headers should be
>> just included in the first packets. The receiver is supposed to update
>> its ssrc table for faster matching.
>>
>> NOTE: The sender should also resend MID and RID if the SSRC changed
>> because some RFCs state that SSRCs may conflict and things that
>> absolutely never happen.
>>
> Kind of agree, but from a theoretical point of view remember that we 
> introduced MIDs/RIDs to cover rtp proxing/switching scenarios in which 
> ssrc conflicts may happen, so in order to cover those scenarios the 
> MIDs/RIDs values must be included in every packet. If we ignore that, 
> then could just go back to ssrc signaling and avoid mids/rids 
> completely, which I would be in favor of.
>
However, an RTP middlebox has the freedom to introduce those header
extensions when switching. They do not need to be sent end-to-end all
the time. So after the initial establishment of them, I see it as the
central middlebox responsibility to ensure that they are included in the
down stream legs towards the conference participants. Also at least for
video introducing them only on reception of a FIR also makes sense.

Cheers 

Magnus Westerlund 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287
Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079
SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------