Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264
Justin Uberti <juberti@google.com> Tue, 05 November 2013 22:58 UTC
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From: Justin Uberti <juberti@google.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 14:57:56 -0800
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To: Randell Jesup <randell-ietf@jesup.org>
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Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264
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On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Randell Jesup <randell-ietf@jesup.org>wrote: > On 11/5/2013 12:55 AM, Mo Zanaty (mzanaty) wrote: > > I’m serious. Name a device in mass production that is relevant to rtcweb > but does not have H.264 hardware. > > > Plenty have hardware is out there that might not be optimized (or usable) > for the types of arbitrary-sized, realtime simultaneous h.264 > encode/decode. Even just handling streaming decode on Android via OMX has > been a year of pain for one of our engineers, because (especially before > JB) the interfaces were unsupported, randomly modified/incompatible, and > with lots of restrictions on what actually is supported. Even with > "perfect" API layers exposing them, the hardware layers (especially > encoders) may not have the low-latency and other realtime characteristics > needed, or knobs to tell them about things like packet loss reports that > require IDR generation. How many does this affect? who knows - and the API > layers on top are inconsistent enough (or non-existent at the present) that > it's especially hard to tell. > > And many of them can handle only a single stream at a time; which makes > "hangout"/simulcast cases more fun (need to run HW and SW in parallel, or > drop to SW only - makes capability signaling fun too; the LCD of the SW and > HW codecs needs to be what you offer probably, unless you want real pain). > Exactly. Name a 3rd-party software application in wide use on any of today's popular platforms that uses a H.264 HW encoder for rtcweb scenarios. > > > > Your second point is valid; hardware is useless without supporting > software. OS APIs to access codecs (both hardware and software, real-time > and buffered) is an important issue. Android is the dominant OS on the > planet. If you are not happy with its OS APIs, just change them; it’s open > source like VP8 right? > > > Not really. You can't modify the underlying OS provided by the > manufacturer (no rooting of phones to run webrtc should be required...) > and even custom roms are going to get much harder or virtually impossible > with kitkat. And witness my comments about the pain of platform decoders > on Android today. > > Randell > > > > Mo > > > On 11/5/13, 1:10 AM, cowwoc <cowwoc@bbs.darktech.org> wrote: > > > I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not... > > In any case, I had a question regarding BlackBerry 10. Are you > implying that every BlackBerry 10 phone includes an API for real-time > encoding/decoding of H.264 video streams? If so, which API is it? I took a > quick look but couldn't find it. > > Thanksm > Gili > > On 04/11/2013 9:52 PM, Mo Zanaty (mzanaty) wrote: > > I think you meant *every* phone, tablet, laptop, desktop, set-top, camera… > > > On 11/2/13, 7:41 PM, Kaiduan Xie <kaiduanx@gmail.com> wrote: > > Every BlackBerry 10 phone has H.264 hardware encoder/decoder. > > /Kaiduan > > > On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Gili <cowwoc@bbs.darktech.org> wrote: >> >>> Martin, >>> >>> I fully understand why Firefox would be happy but as someone who >>> plan to integrate WebRTC into a non-browser application, especially on iOS, >>> Cisco's solution simply does not work. I appreciate their contribution, but >>> again, it simply doesn't help my use-case. >>> >> >> I haven't seen you explain how your use case is different from that of >> a browser. Could you please do so? >> >> -Ekr >> >> >>> Gili >>> >>> >>> On 11/2/2013 11:02 AM, Martin Thomson wrote: >>> >>>> On 2 November 2013 07:37, cowwoc <cowwoc@bbs.darktech.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I can't think of a single platform that supports real-time H.264 >>>>> encoding/decoding natively today. >>>>> >>>> That's a very strange way to put the question. >>>> >>>> Let me put another spin on it, and please excuse the example... >>>> >>>> Skype runs on more platforms than you might think. Those platforms >>>> can all support H.264 to the extent that Skype requires. >>>> >>>> Cisco's generous offer opens almost the same capability to anyone, >>>> with the caveat that some platforms currently remain closed. Of >>>> course, you could let your ideals get in the way of progress. Me, I'm >>>> a pragmatist. This gift represents a great opportunity for people who >>>> actually care about the practical outcomes. >>>> >>>> There's been a lot of mouth-gazing of gift horses on this list of >>>> late. I sure hope that this isn't representative of the real >>>> sentiment of the community. I'd like to think that people are better >>>> than that. >>>> >>>> (BTW, I understand and respect Harald's position. From where he sits, >>>> I'm sure that his conclusion makes perfect sense.) >>>> >>> >>> > > -- > Randell Jesuprandell-ietf@jesup.org > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > >
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announcemen… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Doug Geistkemper
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Lorenzo Miniero
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Alexandre GOUAILLARD
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Simon Pietro Romano
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Alessandro Amirante
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Eric Rescorla
- [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Congra… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Jeremy Laurenson (jlaurens)
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… tim panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Jeremy Laurenson (jlaurens)
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Bossiel thioriguel
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Bossiel
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Bossiel
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Bossiel
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Jeremy Laurenson (jlaurens)
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Kaiduan Xie
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… tim panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- [rtcweb] API standardization on phones? (Re: Plat… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] API standardization on phones? (Re: … DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Richard Shockey
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Erik Lagerway
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Ralph Giles
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Richard Shockey
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Kristian Kielhofner
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Dave Taht
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Gustavo Garcia
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Markus.Isomaki
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Gregory Maxwell
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Bo Burman
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Monty Montgomery
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Krasimir Kolarov
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Krasimir Kolarov
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… David Singer