Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCWeb

Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> Wed, 04 December 2013 13:05 UTC

Return-Path: <harald@alvestrand.no>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BECF1AE128 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Dec 2013 05:05:32 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FfqDT5VfD7Kx for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Dec 2013 05:05:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no (eikenes.alvestrand.no [IPv6:2001:700:1:2:213:72ff:fe0b:80d8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5DED1AE216 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Dec 2013 05:05:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ACF139E51C for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Dec 2013 14:05:27 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at eikenes.alvestrand.no
Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id awALR6dCeDYd for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Dec 2013 14:05:25 +0100 (CET)
Received: from hta-hippo.lul.corp.google.com (unknown [IPv6:2620:0:1043:1:7646:a0ff:fe90:e2bb]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 39EA139E05D for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Dec 2013 14:05:25 +0100 (CET)
Message-ID: <529F2892.50803@alvestrand.no>
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 14:05:22 +0100
From: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rtcweb@ietf.org
References: <52974AA8.6080702@cisco.com> <1F79045E-8CD0-4C5D-9090-3E82853E62E9@nominum.com> <52976F56.4020706@dcrocker.net> <3CD78695-47AD-4CDF-B486-3949FFDC107B@nominum.com> <5006.1385666853@sandelman.ca> <D4D5920A-E041-42E8-BB1C-1CB24FBEE3F4@nominum.com> <BLU169-W1176AB7AECF0757C380A70E93EE0@phx.gbl> <20131129060936.GV3245@audi.shelbyville.oz> <6mkp9912042i9gkg87fc3ji8g9tkv6uqrh@hive.bjoern.hoehrmann.de> <CAMm+LwhUB+Ppj8QXNA+=2thi0ZTgymc1G7=XH9jd+agEEAvwHA@mail.gmail.com> <242q99176qj0e4t7as5lu3e7rosd8grn1v@hive.bjoern.hoehrmann.de> <CEC277EC.AB897%stewe@stewe.org> <65ECB9F5-49F1-492A-A5DC-A4EE02C37092@apple.com>
In-Reply-To: <65ECB9F5-49F1-492A-A5DC-A4EE02C37092@apple.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030509090404070707060305"
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCWeb
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 13:05:32 -0000

One interesting aspect of Motion JPEG is that several cameras implement 
it when they have enough resolution that naked YUV is going to overload 
the USB bus, but they don't want to spend the silicon (or licensing) to 
go all the way to real video codecs. So there are software decoder 
implementations around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_JPEG#Digital_cameras

On 12/04/2013 02:25 AM, David Singer wrote:
> On Dec 2, 2013, at 18:36 , Stephan Wenger <stewe@stewe.org> wrote:
>
>> 1. A reasonably well tuned H.261 codec (including pre/post filters etc.)
>> will under almost any circumstance produce a better picture than MJPEG.
>> The intra coding tools of H.261 have a lot in common with JPEG, and H.261
>> offers inter picture prediction on top of that.
> That may be true, but everyone has a JPEG implementation, its status is clear, and it does convey pictures.  The RTP carriage is trivial, error resilience is excellent (all I pictures).  Yes, you get low frame rates or small pictures, but it’s a fallback.
>
> Motion JPEG is not as bad a choice as all that.  Anyone could implement it, and we could terminate this endless discussion with a decision that could, in fact, be respected by implementations.
>
> I still doubt whether people would consider it worthwhile spending engineer time and so on, on developing an H.261 solution, whereas JPEG (as a codec) is still in heavy use elsewhere.
>
> Nonetheless, I still think H.263 deserves a more careful look.  I know Stephan is negative, but so far, he’s the only one.  For those who DON’T currently implement H.263, could/would you?
>
>
> David Singer
> Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>
> _______________________________________________
> rtcweb mailing list
> rtcweb@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb