Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated...If not now, when"

Kaiduan Xie <kaiduanx@gmail.com> Fri, 15 November 2013 14:51 UTC

Return-Path: <kaiduanx@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 290AA11E8145 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 06:51:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.284
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.284 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15YJJ9u824Ml for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 06:51:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-wi0-x22a.google.com (mail-wi0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD3111E8117 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 06:51:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-wi0-f170.google.com with SMTP id f4so2541287wiw.1 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 06:51:01 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=E2UkF2vut8f8W3+SL6p3ND5G0vezDeQjPtXQPz8MgY4=; b=Tji8Oxo/mV2gay6PiGWAwHo9HeejeIVSZSbDIIvc4Ua6mFydGUqr7otYjjY15Wpp2N Yz2WiVxDwQP67apZ0uYcF3mlf99d2GG+kltb+tHQdqcM1L063D2Es2pHM648HJDBp0Nf ShYQLprAc60a/eg5fRzRInY/9dAg0ADkLodC0cLUTKZZfaJAeJdG9ZAlsvQbsva5t+ba OXrXkC0MXTsPtRbffAupfU7eKDpnjwHxqHIEIYLL45NuBH+qj9s7EuCOQWUXXrMpVc4h xhWOt1YQnTRnJAeBYWt97cY5mWXtOAT+gynG3UFFgOLcf09B6K9xuF7xbToxGUw1N/4z xzKw==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.180.107.193 with SMTP id he1mr7628858wib.50.1384527061163; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 06:51:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.216.183.202 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 06:51:01 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <20131115121249.GS3245@audi.shelbyville.oz>
References: <20131114225633.GR3245@audi.shelbyville.oz> <CEAAE2D9.1D7EE%mzanaty@cisco.com> <20131115121249.GS3245@audi.shelbyville.oz>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:51:01 -0500
Message-ID: <CACKRbQeEXLAFmUNA9M8ARZe9YiT0jfmMfwUGwDdmbJB0w7M++Q@mail.gmail.com>
From: Kaiduan Xie <kaiduanx@gmail.com>
To: Ron <ron@debian.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f234c03a9bee904eb3853cd
Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated...If not now, when"
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 14:51:03 -0000

For all the projects/products built upon webrtc, they better focus on more
how to grow their own business to become profitable and sustainable first.
If you get sued in the future, congratulations to you, your business has
become big enough.

/Kaiduan


On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 7:12 AM, Ron <ron@debian.org>; wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 04:46:39AM +0000, Mo Zanaty (mzanaty) wrote:
> > On 11/14/13, 5:56 PM, Ron <ron@debian.org>; wrote:
> >
> > > Except the proposed Cisco binary deal isn't licencing the Nokia
> patents,
> > or the Motorola patents, or any others, so they'd all still be free to
> > sue anyone using that.
> >
> > No licensor / licensee in the MPEG LA pool can sue anyone over H.264.
> > Google is a licensee, so Motorola can no longer sue anyone over H.264.
> > Nokia (like the old Motorola) is neither a licensor nor licensee, so it
> > can sue.
>
> Ah, thanks for the clarification on that.
>
> > > How is this known and proven liability somehow less of a problem than
> > > the absence of any such thing overshadowing VP8?
> >
> > Half a cent is less of a problem than a permanent injunction.
>
> It's only half a cent after you've shelled out the 6+ figures for the
> high powered lawyers though - and even then only if you 'win'.
>
> And it still means that anyone wanting to take advantage of the Cisco
> offer _is_ going to need to negotiate a separate licence from them.
> So I still don't see how this changes the original problem (even if
> we ignore the other remaining problems).
>
>
> Half a cent for each of millions of unpaying users is still effectively
> a permanent injunction (or worse) for many of the projects that would
> otherwise deploy WebRTC.
>
>
> I'll consider it a sad outcome if we are forced into choosing H.261 here
> too, but if it's the only option that "makes the patents evaporate" in a
> way that satisfies the objectors to VP8, then it's not worse than an
> outcome which limits video (and compliant WebRTC implementation) to only
> people that the H.264 patent holders approve of or turn a blind eye to.
>
>   Ron
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rtcweb mailing list
> rtcweb@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>