Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC calls, not +1 (Re: Requiring ICE for RTC calls)
Matthew Kaufman <matthew.kaufman@skype.net> Wed, 28 September 2011 00:15 UTC
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Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:17:18 -0700
From: Matthew Kaufman <matthew.kaufman@skype.net>
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To: Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
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Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC calls, not +1 (Re: Requiring ICE for RTC calls)
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On 9/27/2011 4:20 PM, Roman Shpount wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:54 PM, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com > <mailto:ekr@rtfm.com>> wrote: > > I'm sorry, but I think you're still missing the point: requiring > ICE *is* the security > feature. > > > I'm sorry, but it I do get the point: ICE is security. My point is, if > you have a trust relationship with a site, ICE validation can be > bypassed, i.e. if you trust the application on the site you trust it > not to do something malicious with your media. You point is that you > do not trust the user with the decision to turn off ICE or trust the > website, since unlike with all the other security decisions this can > be used to hurt other people vs. just users themselves. So, unless we > can invent a robust mechanism to set trust agreements with specific > web sites, we would be better off forcing ICE for everybody. Is this > correct description of the problem? No. This is not a correct description of the problem. ICE isn't about "trusting the site to not do something malicious with your media". ICE is about "trusting your browser to not attack other devices on your local network or the Internet". The browser must, without asking the user, be able to prove that the far end wishes to receive a stream of media. The standard we have available for that is a STUN connectivity check with short-term credentials, using a transaction ID that can neither be set from Javascript nor inspected from Javascript (to prevent spoofing of the reply). This is basically how ICE tests connectivity. Note that the consent must use the same protocol and port you will be sending media on. So for RTP or SRTP over UDP, the consent request must be sent and received over that same UDP port. Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Cameron Byrne
- [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Cameron Byrne
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Ravindran Parthasarathi
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Saúl Ibarra Corretgé
- [rtcweb] RFC 5245 interpretation (Re: Requiring I… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] RFC 5245 interpretation (Re: Requiri… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] RFC 5245 interpretation (Re: Requiri… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] RFC 5245 interpretation (Re: Requiri… Ravindran Parthasarathi
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Ravindran Parthasarathi
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Eric Rescorla
- [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC calls, … Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Igor Faynberg
- [rtcweb] ICE deployment experience (Re: Solutions… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Richard Shockey
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Richard Shockey
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] SBC hardware and SHA1 Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] SBC hardware and SHA1 Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] SBC hardware and SHA1 Cameron Byrne
- Re: [rtcweb] SBC hardware and SHA1 Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] SBC hardware and SHA1 Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] SBC hardware and SHA1 Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] SBC hardware and SHA1 Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [rtcweb] SBC hardware and SHA1 Ravindran Parthasarathi
- Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC cal… Saúl Ibarra Corretgé
- Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls Cullen Jennings