Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd love it if patents evaporated)
Justin Uberti <juberti@google.com> Thu, 14 November 2013 20:00 UTC
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From: Justin Uberti <juberti@google.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 11:59:39 -0800
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To: Leon Geyser <lgeyser@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd love it if patents evaporated)
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Thanks, this is interesting. Is the ffmpeg 261 encoder limited to CIF/QCIF, or can you specify arbitrary sizes? On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Leon Geyser <lgeyser@gmail.com> wrote: > >>This includes a completely JavaScript-based MPEG-1 player for those that > don't happen to have a fitting decoder installed >>(also, yay, JavaScript > is fast enough now for simple video decoders!). I recreated the encoded > files to ensure there are no >>b-frames and documented the encoder settings > accordingly. > Thanks for sharing. Looks better than what I expected. > > > On 14 November 2013 21:12, Maik Merten <maikmerten@googlemail.com> wrote: > >> Hello again, >> >> to allow for having a quick look at some test sequences I put together a >> very very sloppy overview page at >> >> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14053306/mpeg1/index.html >> >> >> This includes a completely JavaScript-based MPEG-1 player for those that >> don't happen to have a fitting decoder installed (also, yay, JavaScript is >> fast enough now for simple video decoders!). I recreated the encoded files >> to ensure there are no b-frames and documented the encoder settings >> accordingly. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Maik >> >> >> Am 14.11.2013 11:52, schrieb Maik Merten: >> >> Hello all, >>> >>> in http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg09721.html a >>> sample of H.261 video was provided, connected to a (rhetorical?) >>> question if this provided quality would be acceptable for users. Clearly >>> that provided sample is of very low and unacceptable quality. >>> >>> Just for comparison, here are two CIF samples at roughly 256k created by >>> a somewhat modern encoder (ffmpeg with rate/distortion optimization): >>> >>> >>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14053306/mpeg1/irene-256k.mpg >>> >>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14053306/mpeg1/mad900-256k.mpg >>> >>> >>> (encoded as MPEG-1 video, as the "h261" encoder in ffmpeg crashes when >>> using rate/distortion optimization. I understand MPEG-1 if used without >>> b-frames is similar to H.261 in coding efficiency, but mostly adds more >>> flexibility regarding frame sizes. >>> >>> ffmpeg -i sign_irene_cif.y4m -vcodec mpeg1video -mbd rd -trellis 2 -cmp >>> 2 -subcmp 2 -g 100 -vb 256k irene-256k.mpg ) >>> >>> Even without formal testing it is obvious that H.261 and/or MPEG-1 video >>> is clearly outperformed in terms of coding efficiency by H.264 and VP8. >>> However, personally, speaking as an end-user, I would very much prefer >>> this video quality over audio-only calls (in cases where transcoding is >>> not available), as the video produced still carries useful information. >>> Also H.261/MPEG-1 is blazingly fast, can be dealt with in software, and >>> is not exceedingly difficult to implement. >>> >>> Of course a MTI codec with higher coding performance is much preferable. >>> However, if no such high-performance codec with licensing terms that are >>> acceptable for all communities can be agreed on I think it may be wise >>> to seriously evaluate the option of implementing an outdated codec for >>> the sake of interoperability. In practice, most calls will negotiate to >>> H.264 and VP8 anyways, but sporadic negotiation failures that are >>> difficult to account for by the user are still to be expected if no MTI >>> codec is defined at all. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Maik >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > >
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Leon Geyser
- [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd love… Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Monty Montgomery
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Gunnar Hellstrom
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- [rtcweb] Trellis IPR status? (Re: H261/MPEG-1 vid… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Trellis IPR status? (Re: H261/MPEG-1… Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Trellis IPR status? (Re: H261/MPEG-1… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Trellis IPR status? (Re: H261/MPEG-1… Maik Merten