Re: [rtcweb] [mmusic] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-and-requirements-11
"Karl Stahl" <karl.stahl@intertex.se> Wed, 02 October 2013 22:50 UTC
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From: Karl Stahl <karl.stahl@intertex.se>
To: 'Magnus Westerlund' <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
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Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 00:50:01 +0200
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Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org, draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-and-requirements@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] [mmusic] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-and-requirements-11
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Hej Magnus, Hmm, if we (IETF) allowed ourselves to each decennium allocate payload types for the 3-4 most common/important codecs, the unassigned pool (PT:35-71) would last 100 years! I think our own Opus, H.264, and maybe some mobile and the Skype codec (SILK) could be honored AND of course the mandatory video codec that will be selected for WebRTC (VPx or H.26y). The need for assigning new payload types may have been small - dynamic payload types works equally well - EXCEPT for the quality routing reason. (RSVP quality type of networks could at least know maximum bandwidth. DPI guesswork could/should be avoided.) So with WebRTC, expecting to finally bring us beyond POTS quality on a massive scale - we (IETF) may reconsider... If that really is impossible, is there anything stopping _the RTCWEB RFC_ to recommend (MUST or SHOULD) specific _dynamic_ payload types to be used for e.g. Opus:PT=111, H.264:PT=112, VP9:PT=113 etc.? That may be good enough, and surely others, like SIP-client, would follow this usage (or add it to their recommendations). /Karl -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: Magnus Westerlund [mailto:magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com] Skickat: den 1 oktober 2013 13:51 Till: Karl Stahl Kopia: rtcweb@ietf.org; draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-and-requirements@tools.ietf.org Ämne: Re: [rtcweb] [mmusic] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-and-requirements-11 Hi Karl, I just want to provide a comment on your below suggestion. On 2013-09-21 23:44, Karl Stahl wrote: > Yet another thing related to > draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-and-requirements-11: > It is about payload type, PT=, in SDP and RTP, so I am copying MMUSIC > > Network service providers have expressed an interest to know whether > packets carry audio or video, to be able to handle them differently in > the network (e.g. quality wise). PT is visible outside the encrypted > payload in RTP, however if dynamic payload types PT:96-127 are used, > you cannot know what the payload is without knowledge of the SDP > (which we for WebRTC must assume the network provider has no knowledge of). > > In http://www.ietf.org/assignments/rtp-parameters/rtp-parameters.xml I > see no PTs defined for Opus, VP8, H.264 etc. considered for WebRTC. > > So, can we have payload types assigned to codecs that will be > recommended for WebRTC are unassigned)? And this is because over 10 years ago we (IETF) stopped assigning static payload types, actually forbid future static assignments. All payload types are assumed to be dynamically assigned in RTCWEB. The reason is that we have more codecs and codec configurations than there is PT space. > Or can we at least split dynamic payload types PT:96-127 into groups > for audio and video codecs? That assumes that one understand how many of each there is going to be. You also have the supplemental payload types, like RTP Retransmission that has a one to one binding with another payload type in the RTP session. So how should one do this split without being significantly restricted in how you use the payload type space. I personally see that the 96-127 space will be insufficient in quite many cases due to the combination of supporting a number of audio and video codes combined with retransmission and FEC. I don't really dare doing a split, as I would have to live with it for the foreseeable future, and it would inevitable be wrong. Cheers Magnus
- [rtcweb] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-and-… Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-… Bernard Aboba
- [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC of dr… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Bernard Aboba
- [rtcweb] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-and-… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Marc Abrams
- [rtcweb] [mmusic] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-c… Karl Stahl
- [rtcweb] [mmusic] TURN server address via DHCP, W… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Marc Abrams
- Re: [rtcweb] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [rtcweb] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-… Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… cb.list6
- Re: [rtcweb] [mmusic] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-u… Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-… Chenxin (Xin)
- Re: [rtcweb] additional ICE info Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-… Chenxin (Xin)
- Re: [rtcweb] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] additional ICE info Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] additional ICE info Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] additional ICE info Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Markus.Isomaki
- Re: [rtcweb] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-… Chenxin (Xin)
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… cb.list6
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Jeremy Laurenson (jlaurens)
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Jeremy Laurenson (jlaurens)
- [rtcweb] [mmusic] TURN server address via DHCP, W… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] [mmusic] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-u… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Saverio Vardaro
- Re: [rtcweb] additional ICE info Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] [mmusic] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-u… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] [mmusic] TURN server address via DHC… Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] [mmusic] TURN server address via DHC… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] [mmusic] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-u… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] [mmusic] TURN server address via DHC… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] [mmusic] TURN server address via DHC… cb.list6
- [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV: [m… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] TURN server address via DHCP, WGLC o… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] [mmusic] TURN server address via DHC… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] [mmusic] WGLC of draft-ietf-rtcweb-u… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] [mmusic] TURN server address via DHC… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV… BeckW
- Re: [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV… BeckW
- Re: [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV… BeckW
- Re: [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV… Lee, Richard FTC
- Re: [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV… Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV… BeckW
- Re: [rtcweb] Payload Types assignments was Re: SV… Karl Stahl
- [rtcweb] [mmusic] Anycast discovery, Was TURN ser… Karl Stahl
- [rtcweb] [avtext] Payload Types assignments was R… Karl Stahl
- [rtcweb] [tram] Payload Types assignments Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] [tram] Payload Types assignments Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] [tram] Payload Types assignments Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] [tram] Payload Types assignments Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] [tram] Payload Types assignments Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: [rtcweb] [tram] Payload Types assignments Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] [tram] Payload Types assignments Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] [tram] Payload Types assignments Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] [tram] Payload Types assignments Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] [tram] Payload Types assignments Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] [tram] Payload Types assignments Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] [tram] Payload Types assignments Karl Stahl