Re: [rtcweb] Peter Dunkley's response

[cowwoc <[e-mail]>]

Got it :) Thanks for the clarification.

Gili

On 20/12/2013 11:44 AM, Peter Dunkley wrote:
> I am an implementer of "other entities".  From my personal 
> point-of-view it is perfectly OK if browsers must do both as long as I 
> don't have to.
>
> Browsers doing both and my not having to still allows my applications 
> and servers to interoperate with browsers - which is the key thing for me.
>
> I am fully aware that this might not match other peoples requirements.
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
>
> On 20 December 2013 16:36, cowwoc <[e-mail] 
> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
>     Peter,
>
>     I assume 4b should be the same as 1b (since you'd still have to
>     implement H.264).
>
>     Gili
>
>     On 20/12/2013 9:35 AM, Peter Dunkley wrote:
>>     > 1. All entities MUST support H.264
>>     > a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     Acceptable
>>     > b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>     Yes, I am concerned about the difficulty (in terms of licensing)
>>     of using H.264 on iOS, Windows Mobile, and similar platforms as
>>     the Cisco binary will not be usable in all cases.
>>
>>     > 2.All entities MUST support VP8
>>     > a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     Yes
>>     > b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>     No
>>
>>     > 3. All entities MUST support both H.264 and VP8
>>     >a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     Acceptable
>>     > b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>     Yes, I am concerned about the difficulty (in terms of licensing)
>>     of using H.264 on iOS, Windows Mobile, and similar platforms as
>>     the Cisco binary will not be usable in all cases.
>>
>>     > 4. Browsers MUST support both H.264 and VP8, other entities
>>     MUST support at least one of H.264 and VP8
>>     > a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     Yes
>>     > b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>     No
>>
>>     > 5. All entities MUST support at least one of H.264 and VP8
>>     > a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     No
>>     > b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>     Yes, this will not ensure interoperability which is the whole
>>     point of an MTI codec.
>>
>>     > 6. All entities MUST support H.261
>>     > a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     No
>>     > b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>     Yes, as time goes on people will move away from H.264 and VP8 for
>>     better performing codecs. It would seem pointless to start off
>>     with such an old one.
>>
>>     > 7. There is no MTI video codec
>>     > a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     No
>>     > b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>     Yes, interoperability is important and an MTI video codec will be
>>     needed for this.
>>
>>     > 8. All entities MUST support H.261 and all entities MUST
>>     support at least one of H.264 and VP8
>>     > a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     Acceptable
>>     > b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>     Yes, I don't like the idea of falling back to H.261 but this at
>>     least means there a good chance of a better codec being selected.
>>
>>     > 9. All entities MUST support Theora
>>     > a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     No
>>     >b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>     Yes, as time goes on people will move away from H.264 and VP8 for
>>     better performing codecs. It would seem pointless to start off
>>     with such an old one.
>>
>>     > 10. All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, H.261}
>>     > a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     Acceptable
>>     > b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>     Yes, I don't like the idea of falling back to H.261 but this at
>>     least means there a good chance of a better codec being selected.
>>
>>     > 11. All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264, H.263}
>>     > a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     No
>>     > b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>     Yes, there are licensing requirements for H.263 and unlike H.264
>>     there is no Cisco (or other) binary to at least help with this on
>>     some platforms.
>>
>>     > 12. All entities MUST support decoding using both H.264 and
>>     VP8, and MUST support encoding using at least one of H.264 or VP8
>>     > a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     Yes
>>     > b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>
>>     > 13. All entities MUST support H.263
>>     > a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     No
>>     > b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>     Yes, there are licensing requirements for H.263 and unlike H.264
>>     there is no Cisco (or other) binary to at least help with this on
>>     some platforms.
>>
>>     > 14. All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264,
>>     Theora}
>>     > a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     Acceptable
>>     > b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>     Yes, I don't like the idea of falling back to Theora but this at
>>     least means there a good chance of a better codec being selected.
>>
>>     > 15. All entities MUST support decoding using Theora.
>>     > a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     No
>>     > b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>     Yes, as time goes on people will move away from H.264 and VP8 for
>>     better performing codecs. It would seem pointless to start off
>>     with such an old one.
>>
>>     > 16. All entities MUST support Motion JPEG
>>     > a. Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>     No
>>     > b. Do you have any objections to this option, if so please
>>     summarize them:
>>     Yes, as time goes on people will move away from H.264 and VP8 for
>>     better performing codecs. It would seem pointless to start off
>>     with such an old one.
>>
>>
>>     On 9 December 2013 17:24, Ted Hardie <[e-mail]
>>     <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>
>>         Dear WG,
>>
>>
>>         This is the email announcing the straw poll across the video
>>         codec alternatives proposed to the WG. If you haven’t read
>>         the “Next Steps in Video Codec Selection Process”
>>         (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg10448.html)then
>>         please do that before you continue to read.
>>
>>
>>         The straw poll’s purpose is to make it clear to the WG which
>>         of the alternatives that are favored or disfavored and what
>>         objections you have, if any, against a particular
>>         alternative. The WG chairs will use the information from this
>>         straw poll to identify an alternative to put as a single
>>         consensus question to the group. Thus, everyone that has an
>>         opinion on at least one alternative should answer this poll.
>>         Provide your poll input by replying to this email to the WG
>>         mailing list. The poll will run until the end of the 12th of
>>         January 2014.
>>
>>
>>         As can be seen below, the poll lists the alternative that
>>         have proposed to the WG. For each alternative two questions
>>         are listed.
>>
>>
>>         The first question is “Are you in favor of this option
>>         [Yes/No/Acceptable]:”. These three levels allow you to
>>         indicate that you: Yes= I would be fine with the WG choosing
>>         this option. No = I really don’t favor this, and it should
>>         not be picked. Acceptable = I can live with this option but I
>>         prefer something else to be picked.
>>
>>
>>         The second question is “Do you have any objections to this
>>         option, if so please explain it:” If you have any objection
>>         at a minimum indicate it with a “Yes”.   Please also add a
>>         short (1-sentence) summary of each of the objections you
>>         believe applies.  (If you wish to provide a longer
>>         explanation, please do so in a separate thread).  If you have
>>         no objection, leave that question blank.
>>
>>
>>         Please provide input on as many of the alternatives as you
>>         like and feel comfortable to do. The more inputs, the more
>>         well informed decision the WG chairs can take when
>>         identifying the option to be brought forward for consensus.
>>         Any alternative that you chose to leave blank, will simply be
>>         considered as one without any input from you.
>>
>>
>>         WG participants, please do not comment on anyone’s input in
>>         this thread! If you want to comment, then create a separate
>>         thread and change the subject line to something else.
>>         Otherwise you are making life for the chairs very difficult
>>         to track the results of this straw poll.
>>
>>
>>         If discussion causes you to update your position, please feel
>>         free to send an update via email on the straw poll thread
>>         prior to the closing date.
>>
>>
>>
>>         1.
>>
>>             All entities MUST support H.264
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>         2.
>>
>>             All entities MUST support VP8
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>         3.
>>
>>             All entities MUST support both H.264 and VP8
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>         4.
>>
>>             Browsers MUST support both H.264 and VP8, other entities
>>             MUST support at least one of H.264 and VP8
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>         5.
>>
>>             All entities MUST support at least one of H.264 and VP8
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>         6.
>>
>>             All entities MUST support H.261
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>         7.
>>
>>             There is no MTI video codec
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>         8.
>>
>>             All entities MUST support H.261 and all entities MUST
>>             support at least one of H.264 and VP8
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>         9.
>>
>>             All entities MUST support Theora
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>        10.
>>
>>             All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264,
>>             H.261}
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>        11.
>>
>>             All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264,
>>             H.263}
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>        12.
>>
>>             All entities MUST support decoding using both H.264 and
>>             VP8, and MUST support encoding using at least one of
>>             H.264 or VP8
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>        13.
>>
>>             All entities MUST support H.263
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>        14.
>>
>>             All entities MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264,
>>             Theora}
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>        15.
>>
>>             All entities MUST support decoding using Theora.
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>        16.
>>
>>             All entities MUST support Motion JPEG
>>
>>             1.
>>
>>                 Are you in favor of this option [Yes/No/Acceptable]:
>>
>>             2.
>>
>>                 Do you have any objections to this option, if so
>>                 please summarize them:
>>
>>
>>
>>         H.264 is a reference to the proposal in
>>         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-burman-rtcweb-h264-proposal/
>>
>>
>>         VP8 is a reference to the proposal in
>>         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-alvestrand-rtcweb-vp8/
>>
>>
>>         Theora is a reference to Xiph.org Theora Specification from
>>         March 16, 2011
>>         (http://www.xiph.org/theora/doc/Theora_I_spec.pdf)
>>
>>
>>         H.263 is a reference to profile 0 level 70 defined in annex X
>>         of ITU-T rec H.263 (http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-H.263/)
>>
>>
>>         H.261 is a reference to http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4587
>>
>>
>>         Motion JPEG is a reference to http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2435
>>
>>
>>
>>         Thanks,
>>
>>
>>         The Chairs
>>
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         rtcweb mailing list
>>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Peter Dunkley
>>     Technical Director
>>     Crocodile RCS Ltd
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     rtcweb mailing list
>>     [e-mail]  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     rtcweb mailing list
>     [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Peter Dunkley
> Technical Director
> Crocodile RCS Ltd