Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Thu, 21 November 2013 20:30 UTC

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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:29:40 -0800
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To: Steve Kann <stevek@stevek.com>
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Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward
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https://github.com/ekr/codec-options



On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>; wrote:

>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Steve Kann <stevek@stevek.com>; wrote:
>
>>
>> Do you plan to open-source your codec option generator?   It would make
>> modifying the list much more efficient.
>>
>
>
> I was thinking of distributing it as a binary module you could link into
> your
> mail client.
>
> -Ekr
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Sent from an iOS mobile device
>>
>> On Nov 21, 2013, at 12:01 PM, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>; wrote:
>>
>> I would like to propose some additional alternatives.
>>
>> SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: Theora
>> SHOULD: H.261
>> SHOULD: H.261 Theora
>> MUST: Theora; SHOULD: H.261
>> MUST: H.261
>> MUST: H.261; SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: H.261 Theora
>> SHOULD: H.263
>> SHOULD: H.263 Theora
>> MUST: Theora; SHOULD: H.263
>> SHOULD: H.263 H.261
>> SHOULD: H.263 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: Theora; SHOULD: H.263 H.261
>> MUST: H.261; SHOULD: H.263
>> MUST: H.261; SHOULD: H.263 Theora
>> MUST: H.261 Theora; SHOULD: H.263
>> MUST: H.263
>> MUST: H.263; SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: H.263 Theora
>> MUST: H.263; SHOULD: H.261
>> MUST: H.263; SHOULD: H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.263 Theora; SHOULD: H.261
>> MUST: H.263 H.261
>> MUST: H.263 H.261; SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: H.263 H.261 Theora
>> SHOULD: VP8
>> SHOULD: VP8 Theora
>> MUST: Theora; SHOULD: VP8
>> SHOULD: VP8 H.261
>> SHOULD: VP8 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: Theora; SHOULD: VP8 H.261
>> MUST: H.261; SHOULD: VP8
>> MUST: H.261; SHOULD: VP8 Theora
>> MUST: H.261 Theora; SHOULD: VP8
>> SHOULD: VP8 H.263
>> SHOULD: VP8 H.263 Theora
>> MUST: Theora; SHOULD: VP8 H.263
>> SHOULD: VP8 H.263 H.261
>> SHOULD: VP8 H.263 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: Theora; SHOULD: VP8 H.263 H.261
>> MUST: H.261; SHOULD: VP8 H.263
>> MUST: H.261; SHOULD: VP8 H.263 Theora
>> MUST: H.261 Theora; SHOULD: VP8 H.263
>> MUST: H.263; SHOULD: VP8
>> MUST: H.263; SHOULD: VP8 Theora
>> MUST: H.263 Theora; SHOULD: VP8
>> MUST: H.263; SHOULD: VP8 H.261
>> MUST: H.263; SHOULD: VP8 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.263 Theora; SHOULD: VP8 H.261
>> MUST: H.263 H.261; SHOULD: VP8
>> MUST: H.263 H.261; SHOULD: VP8 Theora
>> MUST: H.263 H.261 Theora; SHOULD: VP8
>> MUST: VP8
>> MUST: VP8; SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: VP8 Theora
>>  MUST: VP8; SHOULD: H.261
>> MUST: VP8; SHOULD: H.261 Theora
>> MUST: VP8 Theora; SHOULD: H.261
>> MUST: VP8 H.261
>> MUST: VP8 H.261; SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: VP8 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: VP8; SHOULD: H.263
>> MUST: VP8; SHOULD: H.263 Theora
>> MUST: VP8 Theora; SHOULD: H.263
>> MUST: VP8; SHOULD: H.263 H.261
>> MUST: VP8; SHOULD: H.263 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: VP8 Theora; SHOULD: H.263 H.261
>> MUST: VP8 H.261; SHOULD: H.263
>> MUST: VP8 H.261; SHOULD: H.263 Theora
>> MUST: VP8 H.261 Theora; SHOULD: H.263
>> MUST: VP8 H.263
>> MUST: VP8 H.263; SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: VP8 H.263 Theora
>> MUST: VP8 H.263; SHOULD: H.261
>> MUST: VP8 H.263; SHOULD: H.261 Theora
>> MUST: VP8 H.263 Theora; SHOULD: H.261
>> MUST: VP8 H.263 H.261
>> MUST: VP8 H.263 H.261; SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: VP8 H.263 H.261 Theora
>> SHOULD: H.264
>> SHOULD: H.264 Theora
>> MUST: Theora; SHOULD: H.264
>> SHOULD: H.264 H.261
>> SHOULD: H.264 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: Theora; SHOULD: H.264 H.261
>> MUST: H.261; SHOULD: H.264
>> MUST: H.261; SHOULD: H.264 Theora
>> MUST: H.261 Theora; SHOULD: H.264
>> SHOULD: H.264 H.263
>> SHOULD: H.264 H.263 Theora
>> MUST: Theora; SHOULD: H.264 H.263
>> SHOULD: H.264 H.263 H.261
>> SHOULD: H.264 H.263 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: Theora; SHOULD: H.264 H.263 H.261
>> MUST: H.261; SHOULD: H.264 H.263
>> MUST: H.261; SHOULD: H.264 H.263 Theora
>> MUST: H.261 Theora; SHOULD: H.264 H.263
>> MUST: H.263; SHOULD: H.264
>> MUST: H.263; SHOULD: H.264 Theora
>> MUST: H.263 Theora; SHOULD: H.264
>> MUST: H.263; SHOULD: H.264 H.261
>> MUST: H.263; SHOULD: H.264 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.263 Theora; SHOULD: H.264 H.261
>> MUST: H.263 H.261; SHOULD: H.264
>> MUST: H.263 H.261; SHOULD: H.264 Theora
>> MUST: H.263 H.261 Theora; SHOULD: H.264
>> SHOULD: H.264 VP8
>> SHOULD: H.264 VP8 Theora
>> MUST: Theora; SHOULD: H.264 VP8
>> SHOULD: H.264 VP8 H.261
>> SHOULD: H.264 VP8 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: Theora; SHOULD: H.264 VP8 H.261
>> MUST: H.261; SHOULD: H.264 VP8
>> MUST: H.261; SHOULD: H.264 VP8 Theora
>> MUST: H.261 Theora; SHOULD: H.264 VP8
>> SHOULD: H.264 VP8 H.263
>> SHOULD: H.264 VP8 H.263 Theora
>> MUST: Theora; SHOULD: H.264 VP8 H.263
>> SHOULD: H.264 VP8 H.263 H.261
>> SHOULD: H.264 VP8 H.263 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: Theora; SHOULD: H.264 VP8 H.263 H.261
>> MUST: H.261; SHOULD: H.264 VP8 H.263
>> MUST: H.261; SHOULD: H.264 VP8 H.263 Theora
>> MUST: H.261 Theora; SHOULD: H.264 VP8 H.263
>> MUST: H.263; SHOULD: H.264 VP8
>> MUST: H.263; SHOULD: H.264 VP8 Theora
>> MUST: H.263 Theora; SHOULD: H.264 VP8
>> MUST: H.263; SHOULD: H.264 VP8 H.261
>> MUST: H.263; SHOULD: H.264 VP8 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.263 Theora; SHOULD: H.264 VP8 H.261
>> MUST: H.263 H.261; SHOULD: H.264 VP8
>> MUST: H.263 H.261; SHOULD: H.264 VP8 Theora
>> MUST: H.263 H.261 Theora; SHOULD: H.264 VP8
>> MUST: VP8; SHOULD: H.264
>> MUST: VP8; SHOULD: H.264 Theora
>> MUST: VP8 Theora; SHOULD: H.264
>> MUST: VP8; SHOULD: H.264 H.261
>> MUST: VP8; SHOULD: H.264 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: VP8 Theora; SHOULD: H.264 H.261
>> MUST: VP8 H.261; SHOULD: H.264
>> MUST: VP8 H.261; SHOULD: H.264 Theora
>> MUST: VP8 H.261 Theora; SHOULD: H.264
>> MUST: VP8; SHOULD: H.264 H.263
>> MUST: VP8; SHOULD: H.264 H.263 Theora
>> MUST: VP8 Theora; SHOULD: H.264 H.263
>> MUST: VP8; SHOULD: H.264 H.263 H.261
>> MUST: VP8; SHOULD: H.264 H.263 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: VP8 Theora; SHOULD: H.264 H.263 H.261
>> MUST: VP8 H.261; SHOULD: H.264 H.263
>> MUST: VP8 H.261; SHOULD: H.264 H.263 Theora
>> MUST: VP8 H.261 Theora; SHOULD: H.264 H.263
>> MUST: VP8 H.263; SHOULD: H.264
>> MUST: VP8 H.263; SHOULD: H.264 Theora
>> MUST: VP8 H.263 Theora; SHOULD: H.264
>> MUST: VP8 H.263; SHOULD: H.264 H.261
>> MUST: VP8 H.263; SHOULD: H.264 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: VP8 H.263 Theora; SHOULD: H.264 H.261
>> MUST: VP8 H.263 H.261; SHOULD: H.264
>> MUST: VP8 H.263 H.261; SHOULD: H.264 Theora
>> MUST: VP8 H.263 H.261 Theora; SHOULD: H.264
>> MUST: H.264
>> MUST: H.264; SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: H.264 Theora
>> MUST: H.264; SHOULD: H.261
>> MUST: H.264; SHOULD: H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 Theora; SHOULD: H.261
>> MUST: H.264 H.261
>> MUST: H.264 H.261; SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: H.264 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.264; SHOULD: H.263
>> MUST: H.264; SHOULD: H.263 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 Theora; SHOULD: H.263
>> MUST: H.264; SHOULD: H.263 H.261
>> MUST: H.264; SHOULD: H.263 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 Theora; SHOULD: H.263 H.261
>> MUST: H.264 H.261; SHOULD: H.263
>> MUST: H.264 H.261; SHOULD: H.263 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 H.261 Theora; SHOULD: H.263
>> MUST: H.264 H.263
>> MUST: H.264 H.263; SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: H.264 H.263 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 H.263; SHOULD: H.261
>> MUST: H.264 H.263; SHOULD: H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 H.263 Theora; SHOULD: H.261
>> MUST: H.264 H.263 H.261
>> MUST: H.264 H.263 H.261; SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: H.264 H.263 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.264; SHOULD: VP8
>> MUST: H.264; SHOULD: VP8 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 Theora; SHOULD: VP8
>> MUST: H.264; SHOULD: VP8 H.261
>> MUST: H.264; SHOULD: VP8 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 Theora; SHOULD: VP8 H.261
>> MUST: H.264 H.261; SHOULD: VP8
>> MUST: H.264 H.261; SHOULD: VP8 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 H.261 Theora; SHOULD: VP8
>> MUST: H.264; SHOULD: VP8 H.263
>> MUST: H.264; SHOULD: VP8 H.263 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 Theora; SHOULD: VP8 H.263
>> MUST: H.264; SHOULD: VP8 H.263 H.261
>> MUST: H.264; SHOULD: VP8 H.263 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 Theora; SHOULD: VP8 H.263 H.261
>> MUST: H.264 H.261; SHOULD: VP8 H.263
>> MUST: H.264 H.261; SHOULD: VP8 H.263 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 H.261 Theora; SHOULD: VP8 H.263
>> MUST: H.264 H.263; SHOULD: VP8
>> MUST: H.264 H.263; SHOULD: VP8 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 H.263 Theora; SHOULD: VP8
>> MUST: H.264 H.263; SHOULD: VP8 H.261
>> MUST: H.264 H.263; SHOULD: VP8 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 H.263 Theora; SHOULD: VP8 H.261
>> MUST: H.264 H.263 H.261; SHOULD: VP8
>> MUST: H.264 H.263 H.261; SHOULD: VP8 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 H.263 H.261 Theora; SHOULD: VP8
>> MUST: H.264 VP8
>> MUST: H.264 VP8; SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 VP8; SHOULD: H.261
>> MUST: H.264 VP8; SHOULD: H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 Theora; SHOULD: H.261
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 H.261
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 H.261; SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 VP8; SHOULD: H.263
>> MUST: H.264 VP8; SHOULD: H.263 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 Theora; SHOULD: H.263
>> MUST: H.264 VP8; SHOULD: H.263 H.261
>> MUST: H.264 VP8; SHOULD: H.263 H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 Theora; SHOULD: H.263 H.261
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 H.261; SHOULD: H.263
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 H.261; SHOULD: H.263 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 H.261 Theora; SHOULD: H.263
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 H.263
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 H.263; SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 H.263 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 H.263; SHOULD: H.261
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 H.263; SHOULD: H.261 Theora
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 H.263 Theora; SHOULD: H.261
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 H.263 H.261
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 H.263 H.261; SHOULD: Theora
>> MUST: H.264 VP8 H.263 H.261 Theora
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.263, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.263, H.261}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {VP8, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {VP8, H.261}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {VP8, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {VP8, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {VP8, H.263}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {VP8, H.263, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {VP8, H.263, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {VP8, H.263, H.261}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {VP8, H.263, H.261}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {VP8, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {VP8, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 3 of {VP8, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.264, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.264, H.261}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.264, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {H.264, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.264, H.263}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.264, H.263, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {H.264, H.263, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.264, H.263, H.261}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {H.264, H.263, H.261}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.264, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {H.264, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 3 of {H.264, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.264, VP8}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.264, VP8, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {H.264, VP8, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.264, VP8, H.261}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {H.264, VP8, H.261}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.264, VP8, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {H.264, VP8, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 3 of {H.264, VP8, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.264, VP8, H.263}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {H.264, VP8, H.263}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 3 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, H.261}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, H.261}
>> SHOULD do 3 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, H.261}
>> SHOULD do 1 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 2 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 3 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> SHOULD do 4 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.263, Theora}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.263, H.261}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 2 of {H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 1 of {VP8, Theora}
>> MUST do 1 of {VP8, H.261}
>> MUST do 1 of {VP8, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 2 of {VP8, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 1 of {VP8, H.263}
>> MUST do 1 of {VP8, H.263, Theora}
>> MUST do 2 of {VP8, H.263, Theora}
>> MUST do 1 of {VP8, H.263, H.261}
>> MUST do 2 of {VP8, H.263, H.261}
>> MUST do 1 of {VP8, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 2 of {VP8, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 3 of {VP8, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.264, Theora}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.264, H.261}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.264, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 2 of {H.264, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.264, H.263}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.264, H.263, Theora}
>> MUST do 2 of {H.264, H.263, Theora}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.264, H.263, H.261}
>> MUST do 2 of {H.264, H.263, H.261}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.264, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 2 of {H.264, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 3 of {H.264, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.264, VP8}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.264, VP8, Theora}
>> MUST do 2 of {H.264, VP8, Theora}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.264, VP8, H.261}
>> MUST do 2 of {H.264, VP8, H.261}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.264, VP8, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 2 of {H.264, VP8, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 3 of {H.264, VP8, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.264, VP8, H.263}
>> MUST do 2 of {H.264, VP8, H.263}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, Theora}
>> MUST do 2 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, Theora}
>> MUST do 3 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, Theora}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, H.261}
>> MUST do 2 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, H.261}
>> MUST do 3 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, H.261}
>> MUST do 1 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 2 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 3 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>> MUST do 4 of {H.264, VP8, H.263, H.261, Theora}
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Cullen Jennings <fluffy@iii.ca>; wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Added a
>>>
>>> #11     • MUST implement at least two of {VP8, H.264 CBP, H.263}
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 21, 2013, at 11:20 AM, David Singer <singer@apple.com>; wrote:
>>>
>>> > Chairs
>>> >
>>> > can we add this as an option to the formal list, so we get formal
>>> feedback on its acceptability, please?
>>> >
>>> > “Like option ??, pick at least two of {VP8, H.264 CBP, H.263}”
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I think this may be the best (maybe only) way to tease out how much
>>> risk people perceive.
>>> >
>>> > Many thanks
>>> >
>>> > On Nov 21, 2013, at 9:22 , Maik Merten <maikmerten@googlemail.com>;
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Cleary H.263 is preferable from an engineering standpoint (as is,
>>> e.g., MPEG-1 Part 2): better performance, more deployments. The central
>>> question is, however, if those can actually be implemented without some
>>> sort of licensing.
>>> >>
>>> >> If they can: Aweseome! However, this may not be determinable without
>>> a review by people who are knowledgeable in the field of IPR, i.e., "actual
>>> lawyers". I understand that H.263 is not yet old enough to automatically be
>>> considered "safe" (and neither is MPEG-1 Part 2, although it is closer).
>>> >>
>>> >> Best regards,
>>> >>
>>> >> Maik
>>> >>
>>> >> Am 20.11.2013 20:42, schrieb David Singer:
>>> >>> I think we should think hard about H.263 instead of H.261 as the
>>> third fallback.  Why?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-H.263/
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> H.263 was first published in March 1996, so it's 17 years old.  The
>>> restrictions (e.g. on picture size) are no WORSE than H.261.  Yes, more
>>> recent amendments deal with this (and a plethora of other issues), so we’d
>>> need to settle on which of those are mandatory (the usual profiling
>>> discussion).
>>> >>>
>>> >>> There are 34 records in the patent database against H.261, mostly
>>> from 1989 but one as recent as 2005 (though that is a re-file).  That's 2.2
>>> (reciprocity), as was one other I checked.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Rather surprisingly, there are only 31 against H.263!  The most
>>> recent is 2011, and is also option 2.  Most are 1997-2001.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On this quick glance, H.263 appears no worse than H.261. IANAL (as I
>>> am sure you have all noticed).
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> H.263 is much more widely supported and mandated.  It has been
>>> mandated in the 3GPP specs for years (for lots of services, including
>>> videoconf), and is effectively the fallback codec today in the industry, as
>>> I understand.  It was ubiquitous in video telephony for years, and I
>>> suspect many of those systems still ship it.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So, would “MUST implement at least two of (H.264, VP8, H.263)” work?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> (I am asking the question, not even answering on behalf of my
>>> company, yet.  Let’s get the issues on the table.)
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> David Singer
>>> >>> Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> rtcweb mailing list
>>> >>> rtcweb@ietf.org
>>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> rtcweb mailing list
>>> >> rtcweb@ietf.org
>>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>>> >
>>> > David Singer
>>> > Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > rtcweb mailing list
>>> > rtcweb@ietf.org
>>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> rtcweb mailing list
>>> rtcweb@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> rtcweb mailing list
>> rtcweb@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>>
>>
>