Re: [rtcweb] Supporting legacy PSTN interop (was: Use of offer / answer semantics)
"Ravindran Parthasarathi" <pravindran@sonusnet.com> Sun, 11 September 2011 19:34 UTC
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Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 01:06:09 +0530
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Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] Supporting legacy PSTN interop (was: Use of offer / answer semantics)
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From: Ravindran Parthasarathi <pravindran@sonusnet.com>
To: Hadriel Kaplan <HKaplan@acmepacket.com>, Cullen Jennings <fluffy@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Supporting legacy PSTN interop (was: Use of offer / answer semantics)
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I agree with Hadriel for PSTN interop. Thanks Partha >-----Original Message----- >From: rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >Of Hadriel Kaplan >Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 7:21 PM >To: Cullen Jennings >Cc: <rtcweb@ietf.org> >Subject: [rtcweb] Supporting legacy PSTN interop (was: Use of offer / >answer semantics) > > >On Sep 6, 2011, at 9:45 PM, Cullen Jennings wrote: > >> >> On Sep 6, 2011, at 9:20 AM, Matthew Kaufman wrote: >> >>>> The primary issues identified with this was concerns over mapping >this to legacy SDP. >>> >>> This makes the assumption that the primary use case will have things >that speak only SDP offer/answer on the far side. I think that's a very >IETF + SIP + legacy point of view, which is an unfortunate way to >approach the future of communications as enabled by web applications. >> >> I'm not assuming anything about this being the primary use case. I'm >assuming it is an important use case. If it were not, we would do this >totally differently probably starting with not using RTP, certainly not >using SDP or offer/answer, and I'd argue for a p2p (in the overlay >network sense of the term) form rendezvous - there would be people on >the list point out if we use used HIP, everything would be done. We are >not doing that because it is an import use case. The reason it is >important is because that is the way we connect this to the existing >voice and video communication infrastructure that currently supports >well over 4 billion users and probably over 5 billion. We already have a >boat load of solutions to this problem if we don't care about legacy. >That Flash stuff seems to be in lots of browsers and work fine to other >browsers - but I want more than that. For the same reason IPV6 device >that can't connect to anything V4 are much less interesting than devices >that > c >> an connect to both, I want interoperability with the past (meaning all >the existing deployments) and path for an interesting future. Either one >by itself is not enough. >> > >I don't see how the current rtcweb direction could really do that. If >you really want to interop with the 5 billion PSTN/IMS users without a >gateway "interworking" rtcweb media to legacy SIP-based media, the >rtcweb browser would have to mandate support for G.711, AVP rather than >AVPF, support NOT using ICE, support not using SRTP, and not >multiplexing RTP/RTCP. If ICE remains mandatory to use, then there'll >have to be some media-layer ICE terminator (or TURN server) to interop >with the PSTN no matter what. > >The odds are there'll be some form of SBC at the border of the SIP-PSTN >provider anyway (e.g., an IBCF), but the question is whether it'll be >the PSTN providers that have to pay the additional cost to interop with >rtcweb media, or whether it'll be the rtcweb service provider who also >have to deploy gateways. At the end of the day it costs money to >interwork this stuff - i.e., more hardware/blades/CPUs/whatever. So >even if the PSTN providers already use SBCs and they're the ones doing >the interop work, it'll cost more either in the form of more SBCs, or >higher-scale hardware in them. > >Generally the most expensive thing would be to make the gateway/SBC have >to transcode, so if we could at least mandate rtcweb clients support >G.711 and AVP, that would be good. It would really suck if every call >to/from the PSTN had to be transcoded from opus/AVPF to G.711/AVP, when >G.711/AVP is royalty free (and trivial relative to opus/avpf). > >-hadriel > >_______________________________________________ >rtcweb mailing list >rtcweb@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
- [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Henry Sinnreich
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Olle E. Johansson
- [rtcweb] Supporting legacy PSTN interop (was: Use… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] Supporting legacy PSTN interop (was:… Ravindran Parthasarathi
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Use of offer / answer semantics Hadriel Kaplan