Re: [rtcweb] Updating JSEP and BUNDLE

Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> Mon, 25 January 2021 16:51 UTC

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From: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
To: "superuser@gmail.com" <superuser@gmail.com>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>, "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] Updating JSEP and BUNDLE
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 16:50:56 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/UDPXaHKryD4s7gl9pz6BKxHdJGU>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Updating JSEP and BUNDLE
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Hi,

I am cross posting this to MMUSIC as BUNDLE was a MMUSIC document, and this
issue has to my understanding still not been conveyed to the MMUSIC WG
partipants. 

First, I am a bit concerned that this is done in a RTCWeb WG without any
requirement on interaction with MMUSIC. BUNDLE is a general SDP O/A mechanism
and not specific to RTCWebs usage in JSEP. Thus, I am worried about that changes
are applied to BUNDLE that works fine for JSEP, but affect the interoperability
with general case SDP O/A usages. 

Secondly, the citiation below includes the following: "... and existing browser
implementations." I think that gives an impression that RTCWeb browser 
implementations can be used trump over general SDP O/A interoperability and also other implementation, even of WebRTC, that this alignment fix could potentially impact. 

Thus, I would prefer a different wording than referring to a statement that was
intended to be informative that there exists an issue. I would notet that the
statement was quickly written, that a limited set of people had any chance to
see prior to its publication. 

In addition I think the scope can be narrowed even further than to just the
Bundle-only part of BUNDLE and JSEP, to only the aspect that is missaligned.

Cheers

Magnus Westerlund




On Fri, 2021-01-22 at 17:35 -0800, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:
> Colleagues,
> 
> In the final run-up to publication of C238, it was observed that the JSEP and
> BUNDLE documents contradict each other in a significant way.
> 
> Rather than send them back to the working group to resolve, delaying
> publication further for an unknown duration, the authors and Area Directors
> involved reached consensus to publish the entire cluster as it was originally
> approved, with a note added that acknowledges the contradiction (without
> proposing solutions), and stating that the IETF will quickly take up the work
> to publish updates.  The specific text is visible as Section 1.3 of RFC 8829
> and 1.4 of RFC 8843.
> 
> The IESG intends to reconstitute the RTCWEB working group to resolve this
> contradiction, with a scope to resolve only that specific issue and publish a
> couple of document updates.  The plan is to have this rechartering in place in
> time for a meeting at IETF 110 in March.
> 
> Below is the proposed re-chartering for the RTCWEB working group.  Feedback on
> this is welcome, either on the rtcweb@ietf.org list, to me privately, or to
> the IESG.  We will start the formal process of review and approval on the next
> IESG telechat, and have already requested a session during IETF 110 to get the
> work going.
> 
> -MSK, ART AD 
> 
> --
> 
> The RTCWEB working group was originally chartered to standardize mechanisms
> that provide direct interactive rich communication using audio, video,
> collaboration, games, etc. between two peers' web-browsers, without requiring
> non-standard extensions or proprietary plug-ins.  The result was a set of RFCs
> from RTCWEB, in addition to many other RFCs from other working groups, all of
> which are interrelated and had to be published together in what the RFC Editor
> refers to as a “cluster”.  In the end, that cluster comprised more than 40
> RFCs and was finally published in January 2021.
> 
> During the run-up to publication of the cluster, a contradiction was
> identified between what became RFCs 8829 and 8843.  A description of this
> contradiction was added to both documents to highlight the problem, and state
> our intention to proceed with publication but quickly initiate an effort to
> publish updates to the affected documents.
> 
> The key part of the added text was as follows:
> 
> “The specific issue involves the handling of "m=" sections that are designated
> as bundle-only, as discussed in Section 4.1.1 of [RFC 8829].  Currently, there
> is divergence between JSEP and BUNDLE, as well as between these specifications
> and existing browser implementations …”
> 
> The working group is being reconstituted to take up this contradiction, come
> to consensus on a resolution, and issue Standards Track updates for those two
> documents.  Updating any other document, or taking up any other issue, is out
> of scope and will require IESG approval via rechartering.
> _______________________________________________
> rtcweb mailing list
> rtcweb@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb