Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third parties [Was Re:Proposal for H.263 baseline codec]
Basil Mohamed Gohar <basilgohar@librevideo.org> Wed, 04 April 2012 18:53 UTC
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Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2012 14:53:44 -0400
From: Basil Mohamed Gohar <basilgohar@librevideo.org>
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third parties [Was Re:Proposal for H.263 baseline codec]
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Serge, Thank you very much for this much-needed, public clarification. Just one more bit of FUD knocked down! -- Libre Video http://librevideo.org On 04/04/2012 02:44 PM, Serge Lachapelle wrote: > Thank you for your feedback Basil. Google posted this as a result: > > http://www.webmproject.org/about/faq/#does-the-vp8-patent-grant-also-extend-to-hardware-implementations > > /Serge > > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 20:37, Basil Mohamed Gohar > <basilgohar@librevideo.org <mailto:basilgohar@librevideo.org>> wrote: > > Serge, > > Thank you very much for this. To go a step forward, I would encourage > that this be made more legally obvious, because a reference to a > single > e-mail on an "obscure" mailing list (relative to what most people are > familiar with) will not provide the deepest levels of assurance to > those > not actively involved with the WebRTC project. > > I would humbly request an unambiguous statement somewhere on the WebM > project website that makes this assertion clear, because what is > publicly available is, at the very least, ambiguous, and at the worst, > "evidence of Google's nefarious scheme to pounce on hardware > implementers after wide adoption". > > On 04/03/2012 01:54 PM, Serge Lachapelle wrote: > > *[Forking the thread]* > > * > > > > > > * > > *Hello folks,* > > > > Google confirms that the VP8 patent grant applies to both > third-party > > hardware and software implementations of VP8. > > * > > * > > *Google encourages the community to create hardware > implementations of > > VP8, and has recently blogged about a number of new hardware > > implementations on the WebM blog ( > > > http://blog.webmproject.org/2012/03/webm-gaining-momentum-in-hardware.html > > ). * > > * > > * > > *Google is quite proud of what the community has done with VP8 and > > looks forward to seeing more implementations of VP8 in both hardware > > and software. * > > * > > * > > *Regards,* > > * > > * > > */Serge Lachapelle, > > Google, Stockholm* > > > > On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 16:53, Stephan Wenger <stewe@stewe.org > <mailto:stewe@stewe.org> > > <mailto:stewe@stewe.org <mailto:stewe@stewe.org>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 3.29.2012 16:24 , "Basil Mohamed Gohar" > > <basilgohar@librevideo.org > <mailto:basilgohar@librevideo.org> > <mailto:basilgohar@librevideo.org <mailto:basilgohar@librevideo.org>>> > > wrote: > > > > >On 03/29/2012 10:20 AM, Stephan Wenger wrote: > > >> The second part of your sentence may or may not be true, > > depending on > > >>your > > >> relationship with google, your willingness to use the webm > > >>implementation > > >> in unchanged form, and other factors. Please see the > webm license > > >> conditions, which AFAIK can be found here: > > >> http://www.webmproject.org/license/additional/ > > >Correct. I think you are referring to this part, explicitly: > > >> If you or your agent or exclusive licensee institute or order > > or agree > > >> to the institution of patent litigation against any entity > > (including > > >> a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that > this > > >> implementation of VP8 or any code incorporated within this > > >> implementation of VP8 constitutes direct or contributory > patent > > >> infringement, or inducement of patent infringement, then > any patent > > >> rights granted to you under this License for this > implementation of > > >> VP8 shall terminate as of the date such litigation is filed. > > >Perhaps I assumed that that is a very reasonable part of > the license. > > >That is, if you are suing someone alleging a patent > infringement > > within > > >VP8, you are no longer granted the license to use VP8's > patented > > >technologies that Google owns. > > > > Yes, that's one issue. Call it personal preference for > different > > type of > > reciprocity conditions :-) (I could rant about it for > hours, but > > let's > > continue to pretend that this is mostly a technical mailing > list) > > > > The other issue, though (the fact that the license grant extends > > only to > > the VP8 implementation as provided by google, and does not > extent to > > derivative works such as hardware implementations) should be > > moderately > > alarming even for an open source person. With respect to this > > clause, I > > will note that I criticized the licensing conditions in > private and in > > public (IETF mike) several times, months ago, and nothing > happened. > > Suggests to me one of three things: (1) google is a large > company and > > decisions take time, or (2) google's legal is currently > occupied with > > other stuff, or (3) that the choice of language is > intentional, and > > intended to prevent forks. Take your pick. > > Stephan > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >rtcweb mailing list > > >rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org> > <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>> > > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > rtcweb mailing list > > rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org> > <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > Google Sweden AB | Kungsbron 2, SE-111 22 Stockholm | Org. nr. > > 556656-6880 > > > > Apparently, this footer is required in Europe. Apologies. This > > email may be confidential or privileged. If you received this > > communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone > > else,please erase all copies and attachments, and please let me > > know that it went to the wrong person. Thanks. > > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb> > > > > > > > > -- > > Serge Lachapelle | Product Manager | sergel@google.com > <mailto:sergel@google.com> > > <mailto:sergel@google.com <mailto:sergel@google.com>> | +46 732 > 01 22 32 <tel:%2B46%20732%2001%2022%2032> > > > > > > -- > > Serge Lachapelle | Product Manager | sergel@google.com > <mailto:sergel@google.com> > > <mailto:sergel@google.com <mailto:sergel@google.com>> | +46 732 > 01 22 32 <tel:%2B46%20732%2001%2022%2032> > > Google Sweden AB | Kungsbron 2, SE-111 22 Stockholm | Org. nr. > > 556656-6880 > > > > Apparently, this footer is required in Europe. Apologies. This email > > may be confidential or privileged. If you received this > communication > > by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else,please erase all > > copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to the > > wrong person. Thanks. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > rtcweb mailing list > > rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > -- > Libre Video > http://librevideo.org > -- Libre Video http://librevideo.org
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third partie… Serge Lachapelle
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Serge Lachapelle
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Jean-Marc Valin
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Dean Willis
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Monty Montgomery
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Dean Willis
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Dean Willis
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Dean Willis
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Erik Lagerway
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Kevin P. Fleming
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones