Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third parties [Was Re:Proposal for H.263 baseline codec]

Basil Mohamed Gohar <basilgohar@librevideo.org> Wed, 04 April 2012 18:53 UTC

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Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2012 14:53:44 -0400
From: Basil Mohamed Gohar <basilgohar@librevideo.org>
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third parties [Was Re:Proposal for H.263 baseline codec]
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Serge,

Thank you very much for this much-needed, public clarification.  Just
one more bit of FUD knocked down!

-- 
Libre Video
http://librevideo.org


On 04/04/2012 02:44 PM, Serge Lachapelle wrote:
> Thank you for your feedback Basil. Google posted this as a result:
>
> http://www.webmproject.org/about/faq/#does-the-vp8-patent-grant-also-extend-to-hardware-implementations
>
> /Serge
>
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 20:37, Basil Mohamed Gohar
> <basilgohar@librevideo.org <mailto:basilgohar@librevideo.org>> wrote:
>
>     Serge,
>
>     Thank you very much for this.  To go a step forward, I would encourage
>     that this be made more legally obvious, because a reference to a
>     single
>     e-mail on an "obscure" mailing list (relative to what most people are
>     familiar with) will not provide the deepest levels of assurance to
>     those
>     not actively involved with the WebRTC project.
>
>     I would humbly request an unambiguous statement somewhere on the WebM
>     project website that makes this assertion clear, because what is
>     publicly available is, at the very least, ambiguous, and at the worst,
>     "evidence of Google's nefarious scheme to pounce on hardware
>     implementers after wide adoption".
>
>     On 04/03/2012 01:54 PM, Serge Lachapelle wrote:
>     > *[Forking the thread]*
>     > *
>     >
>     >
>     > *
>     > *Hello folks,*
>     >
>     > Google confirms that the VP8 patent grant applies to both
>     third-party
>     > hardware and software implementations of VP8.
>     > *
>     > *
>     > *Google encourages the community to create hardware
>     implementations of
>     > VP8, and has recently blogged about a number of new hardware
>     > implementations on the WebM blog (
>     >
>     http://blog.webmproject.org/2012/03/webm-gaining-momentum-in-hardware.html
>     > ). *
>     > *
>     > *
>     > *Google is quite proud of what the community has done with VP8 and
>     > looks forward to seeing more implementations of VP8 in both hardware
>     > and software. *
>     > *
>     > *
>     > *Regards,*
>     > *
>     > *
>     > */Serge Lachapelle,
>     > Google, Stockholm*
>     >
>     > On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 16:53, Stephan Wenger <stewe@stewe.org
>     <mailto:stewe@stewe.org>
>     > <mailto:stewe@stewe.org <mailto:stewe@stewe.org>>> wrote:
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >     On 3.29.2012 16:24 , "Basil Mohamed Gohar"
>     >     <basilgohar@librevideo.org
>     <mailto:basilgohar@librevideo.org>
>     <mailto:basilgohar@librevideo.org <mailto:basilgohar@librevideo.org>>>
>     >     wrote:
>     >
>     >     >On 03/29/2012 10:20 AM, Stephan Wenger wrote:
>     >     >> The second part of your sentence may or may not be true,
>     >     depending on
>     >     >>your
>     >     >> relationship with google, your willingness to use the webm
>     >     >>implementation
>     >     >> in unchanged form, and other factors.  Please see the
>     webm license
>     >     >> conditions, which AFAIK can be found here:
>     >     >> http://www.webmproject.org/license/additional/
>     >     >Correct.  I think you are referring to this part, explicitly:
>     >     >> If you or your agent or exclusive licensee institute or order
>     >     or agree
>     >     >> to the institution of patent litigation against any entity
>     >     (including
>     >     >> a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that
>     this
>     >     >> implementation of VP8 or any code incorporated within this
>     >     >> implementation of VP8 constitutes direct or contributory
>     patent
>     >     >> infringement, or inducement of patent infringement, then
>     any patent
>     >     >> rights granted to you under this License for this
>     implementation of
>     >     >> VP8 shall terminate as of the date such litigation is filed.
>     >     >Perhaps I assumed that that is a very reasonable part of
>     the license.
>     >     >That is, if you are suing someone alleging a patent
>     infringement
>     >     within
>     >     >VP8, you are no longer granted the license to use VP8's
>     patented
>     >     >technologies that Google owns.
>     >
>     >     Yes, that's one issue.  Call it personal preference for
>     different
>     >     type of
>     >     reciprocity conditions :-)  (I could rant about it for
>     hours, but
>     >     let's
>     >     continue to pretend that this is mostly a technical mailing
>     list)
>     >
>     >     The other issue, though (the fact that the license grant extends
>     >     only to
>     >     the VP8 implementation as provided by google, and does not
>     extent to
>     >     derivative works such as hardware implementations) should be
>     >     moderately
>     >     alarming even for an open source person.  With respect to this
>     >     clause, I
>     >     will note that I criticized the licensing conditions in
>     private and in
>     >     public (IETF mike) several times, months ago, and nothing
>     happened.
>     >     Suggests to me one of three things: (1) google is a large
>     company and
>     >     decisions take time, or (2) google's legal is currently
>     occupied with
>     >     other stuff, or (3) that the choice of language is
>     intentional, and
>     >     intended to prevent forks.  Take your pick.
>     >     Stephan
>     >
>     >     >_______________________________________________
>     >     >rtcweb mailing list
>     >     >rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>>
>     >     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>     >     >
>     >
>     >
>     >     _______________________________________________
>     >     rtcweb mailing list
>     >     rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>>
>     >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>     >     Google Sweden AB | Kungsbron 2, SE-111 22 Stockholm | Org. nr.
>     >     556656-6880
>     >
>     >     Apparently, this footer is required in Europe. Apologies. This
>     >     email may be confidential or privileged.  If you received this
>     >     communication by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone
>     >     else,please erase all copies and attachments, and please let me
>     >     know that it went to the wrong person.  Thanks.
>     >     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > Serge Lachapelle | Product Manager | sergel@google.com
>     <mailto:sergel@google.com>
>     > <mailto:sergel@google.com <mailto:sergel@google.com>> | +46 732
>     01 22 32 <tel:%2B46%20732%2001%2022%2032>
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > Serge Lachapelle | Product Manager | sergel@google.com
>     <mailto:sergel@google.com>
>     > <mailto:sergel@google.com <mailto:sergel@google.com>> | +46 732
>     01 22 32 <tel:%2B46%20732%2001%2022%2032>
>     > Google Sweden AB | Kungsbron 2, SE-111 22 Stockholm | Org. nr.
>     > 556656-6880
>     >
>     > Apparently, this footer is required in Europe. Apologies. This email
>     > may be confidential or privileged.  If you received this
>     communication
>     > by mistake, please don't forward it to anyone else,please erase all
>     > copies and attachments, and please let me know that it went to the
>     > wrong person.  Thanks.
>     >
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > rtcweb mailing list
>     > rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>
>
>     --
>     Libre Video
>     http://librevideo.org
>

-- 
Libre Video
http://librevideo.org