Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive
Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> Wed, 14 September 2011 15:19 UTC
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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:21:34 +0200
From: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
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To: Jonathan Lennox <jonathan@vidyo.com>
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Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive
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On 2011-09-14 16:45, Jonathan Lennox wrote: > Christer Holmberg writes: >> Well, it depends on the amount of outgoing media traffic, but in >> cases where you only receive media you would still need to send >> keep-alives. > > Remember, RTCWeb is (probably) mandating RTP/RTCP mux. I'd need to > do some math to be certain, but I'm pretty sure that in almost all > normal circumstances, the RTCP regular reporting interval should be > significantly smaller than the STUN keepalive interval. You don't need to do the math, I have already done it and it got included into RFC 6263 and quoted below. But, my personal view is that for all reasonable configurations of RTCP you are in fact transmitting RTCP in each direction more often than the ICE default of 15 seconds. ---- Quote Start Here ---- 8. RTCP Flow Keepalive RTCP packets are sent periodically and can thus normally keep the NAT mappings open as long as they are sent frequently enough. There are two conditions for that. First, RTCP needs to be used bidirectionally and in a symmetric fashion, as described in [RFC4961]. Secondly, RTCP needs to be sent frequently enough. However, there are certain configurations that can break this latter assumption. There are two factors that need to be considered to ensure that RTCP is sent frequently enough. First, the RTCP bandwidth needs to be sufficiently large so that transmission will occur more frequently than the longest acceptable packet transmission interval (Tr). The worst-case RTCP interval (Twc) can be calculated using this formula by inserting the max value of the following parameters: o Maximum RTCP packet size (avg_rtcp_size_max) o Maximum number of participants (members_max) o RTCP receiver bandwidth (rtcp_bw) The RTCP bandwidth value to use here is for a worst case, which will be the receiver proportion when all members except one are not senders. This can be approximated to be all members. Thus, for sessions where RR and RS values [RFC3556] are used, then rtcp_bw shall be set to RR. For sessions where the [RFC3550]-defined proportions of RTCP bandwidth are used (i.e., 1/4 of the bandwidth for senders and 3/4 of the bandwidth for receivers), then rtcp_bw will be 5% of 3/4 of the AS value [RFC4566] in bits per second. Twc = 1.5 / 1.21828 * members_max * rtcp_bw / avg_rtcp_size_max * 8 The second factor is the minimum RTCP interval Tmin defined in [RFC3550]. Its base value is 5 seconds, but it might also be scaled to 360 divided by the session bandwidth in kbps. The Extended RTP Profile for Real-time Transport Control Protocol (RTCP)-Based Feedback (RTP/AVPF) [RFC4585] also allows for the setting of a trr-int parameter, which is a minimal RTCP interval for regular RTCP packets. It is also used as the Tmin value in the regular Td calculation. An analysis of the algorithm shows that the longest possible regular RTCP interval is: RTCP_int_max = trr-int * 1.5 + Td * 1.5 / 1.21828 And as long as there is sufficient bandwidth according to criteria 1 below, then the algorithm can be simplified by setting Td = trr-int, giving RTCP_int_max = trr-int * (1.5 + 1.5 / 1.21828) = 2.73123 * trr-int Thus, the requirements for the RTCP parameters are as follows for functioning keepalive: 1. Ensure that sufficient RTCP bandwidth is provided by calculating Twc, and ensure that the resulting value is less than or equal to Tr. 2. If AVP or SAVP [RFC3711] is used, the Tmin value can't be greater than Tr divided by 1.5 / (e-3/2). 3. If AVPF or SAVPF [RFC5124] is to be used, trr-min must not be set to a value greater than Tr / 3. ----- End of Quote ---- -- Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------
- [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Jonathan Lennox
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive sisalem
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Göran Eriksson AP
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Magnus Westerlund
- [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for keep… Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Colin Perkins
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal (mperumal)
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive Michael Tüxen
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] consent freshness [was RE: STUN for … Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] STUN for keep-alive - RTCP-less appl… Iñaki Baz Castillo