IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [rtcweb] [tram] [RTCWEB] [TRAM] Protesting: Requesting TRAM Charter Clarification regardig Milestone 3: TURN server auto-discovery mechanism for enterprise and ISPs

"Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" <fluffy@cisco.com> Wed, 26 February 2014 08:05 UTC

Return-Path: <fluffy@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61FCE1A008E; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 00:05:47 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -110.048
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gxcBHsSR8hik; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 00:05:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CFA1A0092; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 00:05:40 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1290; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1393401939; x=1394611539; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=Lfr0m5MtyKVpXpY0pLAOIHsWRsnUcdjSKX/sL6ChiiI=; b=TOnDc5CkQwfuyNnA0FgeKXbaI9BghPxzHjPM2sGhTwWPeA70TT5CX1Zn tKlbFChRN+8CUqjjE5eQrsgvWTLrDQNg99+JPmug7dLgGRkuZzL2J8Uri Y3RPBwa9gEcV5Y41NL25ICqQIobhoVGuVR4EWqAv1Ba0ETw/tJD7mY9Ve s=;
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFAC2gDVOtJV2a/2dsb2JhbABYgwaBEsEFgRoWdIIlAQEBAwF5EAIBCDsLMiUCBA4Fh30IyGwXjXglMweDJIEUAQOYNpIogW+BPoFoQg
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.97,546,1389744000"; d="scan'208";a="23261635"
Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Feb 2014 08:05:31 +0000
Received: from xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com [173.37.183.79]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s1Q85VV8017950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 Feb 2014 08:05:31 GMT
Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([169.254.5.205]) by xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com ([173.37.183.79]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 02:05:30 -0600
From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" <fluffy@cisco.com>
To: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
Thread-Topic: [tram] [RTCWEB] [TRAM] Protesting: Requesting TRAM Charter Clarification regardig Milestone 3: TURN server auto-discovery mechanism for enterprise and ISPs
Thread-Index: AQHPMbSdf/e29IVb6Eq4DfCgCp5RAprHHxqAgAABqQCAAHOcgA==
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 08:05:30 +0000
Message-ID: <055BC233-8C90-4A07-9AFC-FB178586AA0B@cisco.com>
References: <20140214030712.30321.21888.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAKhHsXGzA=ZTFGTK7ht9hQbfG70iqKrDtxrZCdQNNMzBYZCk8A@mail.gmail.com> <530604ea.c5bf440a.5cfd.ffffde18SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> <CAKhHsXGsp6ma6Ko9op+YFRqSGM_Ex-jFo_fjz69rN0SEHfNK2A@mail.gmail.com> <CALDtMrKb3_38Rs0vaGnpEvNvTYz8YUTo89STvLJNXfkfdipDSQ@mail.gmail.com> <93BEDDC39A54294B9E78C7860516FA4724AA4422@AZ-US1EXMB06.global.avaya.com> <B7FA2629-6D48-4569-BB62-56395C3EE4BC@cisco.com> <AA208926-C949-4580-B20B-DCF172D3C21B@cisco.com> <CALaySJK+SdamVrbFk_+NTJDLDX7hwH3w3G-L4MBtxR70ZHPu2w@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CALaySJK+SdamVrbFk_+NTJDLDX7hwH3w3G-L4MBtxR70ZHPu2w@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [10.66.247.234]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-ID: <5C592798698FF940BAABC2723F2E1FA5@emea.cisco.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/YAu4kuBolBmBPSJPEWaXMsu7B4E
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 00:36:34 -0800
Cc: "tram@ietf.org" <tram@ietf.org>, Spencer Dawkins <spencer@wonderhamster.org>, "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>, IESG IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] [tram] [RTCWEB] [TRAM] Protesting: Requesting TRAM Charter Clarification regardig Milestone 3: TURN server auto-discovery mechanism for enterprise and ISPs
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 08:05:48 -0000

On Feb 26, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org> wrote:

>> That said, I think you have pointed out this charter is abysmally
>> vague - it does not say what the WG is not going to do. If I
>> decided to do BGP for routing updates over TURN it would be
>> within the scope of this charter.
> 
> Cullen, is it your opinion that a working group is always free to do
> anything that's not explicitly forbidden in its charter?
> 
> I think that a working group is limited to doing what *is* in its
> charter, and we sometimes explicitly forbid things for emphasis.
> 
> The TRAM charter says this:
> 
>   The work will include the addition of DTLS
>   as an additional transport, authentication mechanisms, and
>   extensions to TURN and STUN.
> 
> I don't think that would support, for example, BGP over TURN.
> 
> Barry

BGP over TURN sounds like a turn extension to me. Now you might think that is a silly one and I would agree but I assure you Karl does not think the QoS extensions are silly extensions to TURN. 

So in your opinion are they in scope or out, I think that is the heart of the issue right now. I’m of the opinion they are in scope so I look forward to agenda time be allocated for them. 

Cullen

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email