Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264
Gili <cowwoc@bbs.darktech.org> Sat, 02 November 2013 20:02 UTC
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Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2013 16:01:52 -0400
From: Gili <cowwoc@bbs.darktech.org>
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To: "Jeremy Laurenson (jlaurens)" <jlaurens@cisco.com>
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Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264
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With respect, no. As I keep on repeating, there is a strong need for WebRTC outside of the browser. I don't see how I am supposed to integrate WebRTC into a closed-source iOS application if H.264 is MTI. I would be more than happy to revisit my position once someone provides a credible solution. Gili On 11/2/2013 11:16 AM, Jeremy Laurenson (jlaurens) wrote: > I suspect iOS will be the worst example. Apple likes h.264 and I think > is actually most likely to release a Safari native h.264 WebRTC > implementation vs any other option.... And I highly doubt they'll be > using Cisco's module > > To the degree this is about "enabling web browsers with Real-Time > Communications (RTC) capabilities via simple Javascript APIs." they > actually could check the box easily... And give you a UiWebView... > Which may well make WebRTC wind up being the best way to get hardware > 264 support in 3rd party apps... And hence push WebRTC even further. > > And as always say "Apple iOS is supporting openness"... > > Can't wait for those discussions :-) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 2, 2013, at 10:38 AM, "cowwoc" <cowwoc@bbs.darktech.org > <mailto:cowwoc@bbs.darktech.org>> wrote: > >> >> How many platforms *really* support H.264 natively today? >> >> iOS is a great example. On paper, it supports H.264 but in >> reality the public API only supports H.264 decoding (not encoding). >> Then, when you try using that API for decoding you discover that it >> does not support real-time decoding (only decoding from file). So >> really, iOS doesn't actually support H.264 as required by WebRTC. >> Android is only marginally better in that respect. >> >> I can't think of a single platform that supports real-time H.264 >> encoding/decoding natively today. >> >> Gili >> >> On 02/11/2013 7:31 AM, Bernard Aboba wrote: >>> Not sure I understand this completely. Isn't support for "the Rube >>> Goldberg Machine" needed only on platforms that do not natively >>> support H.264? >>> >>> On Nov 1, 2013, at 1:14 PM, "Justin Uberti" <juberti@google.com >>> <mailto:juberti@google.com>> wrote: >>> >>>> I also want to reiterate that having a MTI codec means Mandatory To >>>> Implement. >>>> >>>> That means, that should we decide to go down the H.264 path, >>>> Firefox and others will be forced to support this Rube Goldberg >>>> machine for obtaining H.264 for an indeterminate amount of time, >>>> long after WebRTC has moved on to prefer other codecs. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com >>>> <mailto:adam@nostrum.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 10/31/13 13:47, Harald Alvestrand wrote: >>>>> >>>>> We congratulate Cisco on their intention to make an open >>>>> source H.264 codec available and usable by the community. We >>>>> look forward to seeing the result of this effort. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Google still believes that VP8 - a freely available, fully >>>>> open, high-quality video codec that you can download, compile >>>>> for your platform, include in your binary, distribute and put >>>>> into production today - is the best choice of a Mandatory to >>>>> Implement video codec for the WebRTC effort. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I agree with Harald that VP8 is a better codec than H.264 >>>> baseline in a number of important ways. >>>> >>>> But I also want to reiterate that having an MTI codec has never >>>> been about choosing the best codec or even a good codec. It's >>>> about choosing an emergency backup codec-of-last-resort. It's >>>> about having one single mandated codec that everyone has in >>>> their back pocket in case nothing else works. >>>> >>>> The core of RTCWEB is about session *negotiation*. Endpoints >>>> will negotiate the best codec they have in common. Once the >>>> next generation of codecs come out, this "best codec in common" >>>> will only be the MTI if they were about to fail anyway. >>>> >>>> So it doesn't have to be good. >>>> >>>> It just has to be better than failure. >>>> >>>> /a >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> rtcweb mailing list >>>> rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> rtcweb mailing list >>>> rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> rtcweb mailing list >>> rtcweb@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announcemen… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Doug Geistkemper
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Lorenzo Miniero
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Alexandre GOUAILLARD
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Simon Pietro Romano
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Alessandro Amirante
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Eric Rescorla
- [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Congra… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Jeremy Laurenson (jlaurens)
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… tim panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Jeremy Laurenson (jlaurens)
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Bossiel thioriguel
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Bossiel
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Bossiel
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Bossiel
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… Jeremy Laurenson (jlaurens)
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Kaiduan Xie
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… tim panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 (was: Co… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- [rtcweb] API standardization on phones? (Re: Plat… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] API standardization on phones? (Re: … DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Richard Shockey
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Erik Lagerway
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Ralph Giles
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Richard Shockey
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Kristian Kielhofner
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Dave Taht
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Gustavo Garcia
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Markus.Isomaki
- Re: [rtcweb] Platforms that support H264 Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Gregory Maxwell
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Bo Burman
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Monty Montgomery
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Krasimir Kolarov
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Krasimir Kolarov
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Congratuiations on the Cisco announc… David Singer