Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (adding multiple sources without encoding them in SDP)

Peter Thatcher <pthatcher@google.com> Thu, 27 June 2013 05:22 UTC

Return-Path: <pthatcher@google.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A67C21F9A85 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 26 Jun 2013 22:22:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.794
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.123, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_URI_CONS7=0.306]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4zJKo02vSAVn for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 26 Jun 2013 22:22:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pa0-x22f.google.com (mail-pa0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2A8A21F9A19 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Wed, 26 Jun 2013 22:22:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pa0-f47.google.com with SMTP id kl14so545677pab.6 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Wed, 26 Jun 2013 22:22:37 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=BAWTwIzjUtCKRxVCKrQRn3TmAFw6OmcLN4+KmI+nnBg=; b=iM9ovcst30QUhVhTyvXRpUA3ilgDW3YemCK6jOwJe24ww0z7+JxdPY17cuu2Y1hnW+ IlmmUN+MqIo9pW4TCXF1vSi5Jkl1GMirLbzsgkUCLr3gQWV56CSYKJltPPoDZv07MjG1 RwCeTgb/Rz78WQuCUMeCBxma7JJ/pkr/qEaPioSumONjXud5OmKe+no4hdJhRAfrlczS R4DSNZFp3aYNtpBTlr4uMhOFwdguUPnTMjD7zx1ywGTgO+eTWcu3Xd9jQXCABEzzp7x0 kmpkRYJ1NQqKq/+MmtVFSWLqxa2RN3cN0QzMoE+2FFNCGWCePeKngq67rPprFNYjiS3r Uoiw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=BAWTwIzjUtCKRxVCKrQRn3TmAFw6OmcLN4+KmI+nnBg=; b=Bpid8TdDegcVuultdM2NTWtu52CTMRcr0sB5HH6WLx5EU/ej2MWvkWvAyoHSje19Zq iWz6rNFkZLJ8bWSt/NMchfnmvxAM4AsWKgt2dTROkzILmQgYE1PWMgnnM6ARtzKCaxiE O+gawUkR7TAQVmRJUCt6mOUpOajIm6PjphU8vx7+GOY2XsGI5nktUZiC0G/5svX71Oik GtH/PKKRQjlMDnem5kRwf4Pgt1Y8j5eYWqyEHRRIBsdkt+z5DwyVSG6oQ9yhE7viMFsc 5bo2TM1VkUioZlXWVf5TaE/nLxZ+OKO1Ox4ivHkGJjru3oUNPemWZkrEB1ckhMuc1K/u W13Q==
X-Received: by 10.68.184.100 with SMTP id et4mr4227645pbc.48.1372310557346; Wed, 26 Jun 2013 22:22:37 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.66.216.163 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Jun 2013 22:21:57 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <BLU169-W225763F0847397377AA5AE93750@phx.gbl>
References: <CAJrXDUHdoxLTsofiwLBdwBNnCCkCBgjSdbmLaXrNEPODMrsSVA@mail.gmail.com> <CAHp8n2m4VwkpbdGE+q73qqij5RDCB4Vb-Ui1LmGSx1zmv8TX2g@mail.gmail.com> <CAJrXDUEfdsZJBgkcb=MJnxRmk9ZMTHw39DE=YWa+ngXxvfsQ0A@mail.gmail.com> <51C1D55D.6040905@hookflash.com> <BLU169-W225763F0847397377AA5AE93750@phx.gbl>
From: Peter Thatcher <pthatcher@google.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 22:21:57 -0700
Message-ID: <CAJrXDUHnECsdbb4yo9N1ZseQyaLGXviA+pOm15JW4Ofa9Vd3Yw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bernard Aboba <bernard_aboba@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="047d7bd76aba4af97004e01bf3e4"
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlizMw2Hv+jg1kmpZt3Pt6VkzfV+mJMcLSS/63Diswexj9b6/vX89yXmnClxvXt5FRzmjOwy9fwntJk+yt9stdiLnVzAa8jvgEJoFQEP7kY4PhH818rUF0rSafx9vwOjB/oELBYyd6CIpA12fIBFN+xr1+hEJxTffQSwQzM3Tu+qawUw7nkYue2kR3txFAxjGVb3+Iq
Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (adding multiple sources without encoding them in SDP)
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 05:22:38 -0000

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 9:14 PM, Bernard Aboba <bernard_aboba@hotmail.com>wrote:

> Robin said:
>
> "If provided a lower level API that works without SDP where the individual
> network/media component wiring/attributes can be controlled, we could
> create the same WebRTC API that exists today'
>
> [BA] I wouldn't require a shim to provide "the same WebRTC API that exists
> today" because that API is very underspecified, so that it is not possible
> to produce a set of conformance tests for it without reverse engineering.
>  And of course, that reverse engineered specification would only remain
> valid until the next set of SDP hacks invalidated it.
>

Once thing you *could* do (I'm not saying this is a good idea) is take an
open source browser (let's pick Chrome) implement a "WebRTC 2.0" API, and
then build the WebRTC 1.0 on top of it.  You could then port the WebRTC 1.0
SDP code (for reference, it's here:
https://code.google.com/p/libjingle/source/browse/trunk/talk/app/webrtc/webrtcsdp.cc)
on to the WebRTC 2.0 API.  At that point, you would have an "1.0 on 2.0"
API that is the same as the "original 1.0" API, or at least as close as
could possibly be done.  And at the same time, you'd have the 2.0 available
to JS to use.

Repeat that process for all (2) browsers that have implemented the WebRTC
1.0 API.  What could go wrong :)?



>
> So while the shim might provide a "similar high level WebRTC API", holding
> WebRTC API 2.0 to a "bug for bug" compatibility standard is neither
> feasible nor desirable.   The goal of WebRTC API 2.0 should be to deprecate
> 1.0, not to increase the WebRTC API implementation barriers even further.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rtcweb mailing list
> rtcweb@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>
>