Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and RTP - Lower level API minus SDP
Peter Thatcher <pthatcher@google.com> Thu, 07 March 2013 21:34 UTC
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From: Peter Thatcher <pthatcher@google.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:33:40 -0800
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To: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
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Cc: "<rtcweb@ietf.org>" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and RTP - Lower level API minus SDP
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A JSON format doesn't have to be "SDP in a different format". It can be much better. It can expose an easy way to change the video resolution to send, or a way to add/remove tracks easily. Listing cameras, however, is a whole different topic. On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> wrote: > If your suggestion is only to convert the SDP to JSON, then that's a first > step, but not the full story, because the complexity is just represented in > a different format. I'm looking for something that helps programmers achieve > their goals more easily. > > JSON is a first step, because it's a more readable data format. However, it > doesn't help me, to e.g. list the cameras on offer and remove one, or change > the offered video resolution. That needs manipulation functions. > > > > On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Peter Thatcher <pthatcher@google.com> wrote: >> >> So, would you like a SessionDescription that is easy to read and >> manipulate, such as a JSON object? >> >> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer >> <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Agreed, but it's also not sufficient. SDP is not "programmer friendly" >> > enough because it has too many details that are protocol-details only >> > and >> > it's too hard to see the semantic bits in SDP and ignore the rest. >> > >> > For example: the programmer wants to say - I want to get this video >> > resolution, this audio bitrate & channels, I want to use this camera and >> > this microphone for this call. Having to manipulate SDP directly for >> > this is >> > a programmer's nightmare. >> > >> > Silvia. >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 8:12 AM, Peter Thatcher <pthatcher@google.com> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> You can already do that by "munging" the SDP. It's just not very >> >> pleasant to do. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer >> >> <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 5:51 AM, Mary Barnes >> >> > <mary.ietf.barnes@gmail.com> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Mary Barnes >> >> >> > <mary.ietf.barnes@gmail.com> >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Martin Thomson >> >> >> >> <martin.thomson@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Obviously I (and my employer) agree with these sentiments >> >> >> >> > wholeheartedly. Both Robin and Hadriel. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > That doesn't change the fact that a number of people are highly >> >> >> >> > motivated to protect their investment in SDP offer/answer. For >> >> >> >> > those >> >> >> >> > people, the pain that causes everyone else is clearly far less >> >> >> >> > important than the pain they feel at this moment. So here we >> >> >> >> > are. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [MB] I originally thought that either approach could work. I did >> >> >> >> see >> >> >> >> the value that folks saw in using SDP offer/answer. But after >> >> >> >> sitting >> >> >> >> through the interim meeting last month, I am very much of the >> >> >> >> mindset >> >> >> >> that using SDP O/A is a bad idea. I think many of us thought >> >> >> >> that >> >> >> >> using the SDP blob would help with interoperability with "legacy" >> >> >> >> SIP >> >> >> >> endpoints. I don't see that now at all. I think we will end up >> >> >> >> with >> >> >> >> a very fragile solution that will be very difficult to >> >> >> >> extend/modify >> >> >> >> later if we continue down the SDP O/A path. >> >> >> >> [/MB] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Hasn't the WG already been asked this question not once but >> >> >> > twice. >> >> >> [MB] Yes. And, some of us have changed our positions based upon the >> >> >> challenges that the group is facing in getting the current approach >> >> >> specified and agreed. I don't disagree that it is not a good thing >> >> >> that this is being discussed yet again. [/MB] >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > [Gotta love the triple negation!] >> >> > >> >> > Why can't we have it both ways? >> >> > >> >> > Maintain the current way to get the raw SDP using createOffer, but >> >> > then >> >> > provide an interface to change that offer before setLocalDescription. >> >> > >> >> > Even CISCO provides such an API: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/voice_ip_comm/cucm/sip_tn/8_5_1/4-sdp_api.html >> >> > (I think we can do a better one than this, but it's a reference >> >> > point). >> >> > >> >> > Cheers, >> >> > Silvia. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > rtcweb mailing list >> >> > rtcweb@ietf.org >> >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> >> > >> > >> > > >
- [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and RTP -… Robin Raymond
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Mary Barnes
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Mary Barnes
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Erik Lagerway
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Robin Raymond
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- [rtcweb] Division of labor (Re: Proposed Plan for… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Division of labor (Re: Proposed Plan… Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposed Plan for Usage of SDP and R… Justin Uberti
- [rtcweb] Separating stream manipulation from the … Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Separating stream manipulation from … Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Separating stream manipulation from … Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Separating stream manipulation from … Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Separating stream manipulation from … Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Separating stream manipulation from … Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Separating stream manipulation from … Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Separating stream manipulation from … Suhas Nandakumar
- Re: [rtcweb] Separating stream manipulation from … Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Separating stream manipulation from … Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Separating stream manipulation from … Dale R. Worley