Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated...If not now, when"
"Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" <mzanaty@cisco.com> Fri, 15 November 2013 04:46 UTC
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From: "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" <mzanaty@cisco.com>
To: Ron <ron@debian.org>, "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated...If not now, when"
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 04:46:39 +0000
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated...If not now, when"
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On 11/14/13, 5:56 PM, Ron <ron@debian.org> wrote: On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 10:16:20PM +0000, Mo Zanaty (mzanaty) wrote: > You don¹t have to speculate. Motorola (now Google) sued Microsoft over > H.264 patents. No one intervened, so there is no obligation nor incentive > to do so. However, because this involved standards-essential patents, and > Motorola participated in the standards, it has FRAND obligations for >those > SEPs, with a clear precedent for FRAND royalty rates established by MPEG > LA for that standard. The result was Microsoft has to pay half a cent in > royalties per product they ship containing an H.264 codec, but Motorola > must pay $15M for breaching SEP/FRAND obligations (by demanding $4B). If > Nokia sued anyone over H.264, a similar result is likely. > Except the proposed Cisco binary deal isn't licencing the Nokia patents, or the Motorola patents, or any others, so they'd all still be free to sue anyone using that. No licensor / licensee in the MPEG LA pool can sue anyone over H.264. Google is a licensee, so Motorola can no longer sue anyone over H.264. Nokia (like the old Motorola) is neither a licensor nor licensee, so it can sue. But Nokia has FRAND obligations for H.264 since it participated in the standard, while it has no such obligations for VP8. If it sues over H.264, it likely can’t get more than half a cent like Motorola. If it sues over VP8, and wins, it can get a permanent injunction. > How is this known and proven liability somehow less of a problem than the absence of any such thing overshadowing VP8? Half a cent is less of a problem than a permanent injunction. > If we're giving credit to MPEG LA, we can also credit them for trying >very hard, and failing, to create a pool that reads on VP8. I never said it deserves credit, just that in one case it prevented unreasonable royalties. > If people are going to stand on that FUD, maybe a 25 year old codec is the best answer here after all. No FUD intended. If you want to help clear the FUD, help analyze the patents. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130324162902177 I really hope we can do better than H.261. That would be a failure to me. > Ron
- [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated...If… Mike Linksvayer
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… David Singer
- [rtcweb] where that h264 plugin can be used Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… John Leslie
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] where that h264 plugin can be used Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Kaiduan Xie
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Michael Thornburgh
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Philipp Hancke
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Philipp Hancke
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Göran Eriksson AP
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… John Leslie
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… John Leslie
- Re: [rtcweb] where that h264 plugin can be used Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Marco Stura
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated.… Kaiduan Xie