Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI
"Karl Stahl" <karl.stahl@intertex.se> Tue, 05 November 2013 23:12 UTC
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From: Karl Stahl <karl.stahl@intertex.se>
To: 'cowwoc' <cowwoc@bbs.darktech.org>, rtcweb@ietf.org
References: <CE9E91B2.1BEAA%mzanaty@cisco.com> <8EB7C7F2-105D-4CFB-AC06-F8BB331A4736@cisco.com> <5279339B.9040506@bbs.darktech.org>
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Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2013 00:12:25 +0100
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI
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I support this voting suggestion and don't think it violates the proposals on the table. I actually think "1. Should *both* H.264 and VP8 be MTI?" is the only one that has a chance of reaching consensus. Also, - it is the best to avoid connection failure - it will avoid requests for transcoding in the network (which would be very bad technically) - with the royalty free solutions VP8 from Google and H.264 from Cisco, why not? None of these offers are conditioned being the only MTI. It is technically not more difficult to include both than H.264 only. - if any real IPR issue appears for H.264 or VP8, we have a fallback by removing the MTI for one of these. - we will see the Cisco codec plug-in slot model at least in some popular browsers, which could be used for future codec plug-ins; better and innovative codecs for general or specialized usage- In short: Why not making both MTI? We have both G.711 and Opus for Audio. /Karl -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] För cowwoc Skickat: den 5 november 2013 19:06 Till: rtcweb@ietf.org Ämne: Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Cullen, In light of the fact that vendors are highly polarized on this topic, I'd like to suggest the following voting order: 1. Should *both* H.264 and VP8 be MTI? If there is a consensus for yes, stop here. 2a. Should *only* H.264 be MTI? or, 2b. Should *only* VP8 be MTI? If there is a consensus for either one, stop here. 3a. Should *only* H.261 be MTI? or, 3b. Should no codec be MTI? (this implies transcoding) Given the final choice (H.261 or no MTI) I suspect many vendors would choose H.261 and upgrade to H.264/VP8 at runtime. No one really wants to go back to the days of transcoding. Gili On 05/11/2013 12:44 PM, Cullen Jennings (fluffy) wrote: > Right now there is no proposal on the table for the MTI to be both VP8 and H.264 and the deadline was back in October so it's not a topic the chairs feel ready to discuss in the thursday meeting. > > I will note that in the past when this idea was discussed, the people who were concerned about IPR for either codec pointed out that this could only increased, not decreased, the IPR concerns. > > The chairs are more concerned about neither choice being acceptable. If we found out that both are acceptable, that will be a good situation and we will find a reasonable way to proceed from there that is acceptable to the WG. Alternative process is the last resort. From a chair point of view, it really better if people actually honestly answer the question in a consensus call instead gaming the system. > > Cullen - Just one of the chairs and I hope my co-chairs add more but > they are both in meetings right now > > > On Nov 5, 2013, at 9:27 AM, "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" <mzanaty@cisco.com> > wrote: > >> This is an important point the chairs must clarify. If there is >> strong support for both questions, will the chair interpret that as >> support for 2 MTIs, or declare no consensus, forcing us into >> alternative processes? I support both as MTI. But if raising my hand >> twice increases the likelihood of an alternative process, I will only >> support one (despite objecting to being forced to support only one). >> >> Mo >> >> >> On 11/5/13, 9:46 AM, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On 5 November 2013 06:18, Hutton, Andrew <andrew.hutton@unify.com> wrote: >>> How would we conclude that the community would like both to be made MTI? >> >> If I were to pretend that I am a process wonk, I might say something >> like: if the objections to both questions are weak AND if the >> objectors are unable to find reasons that pass muster. >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb _______________________________________________ rtcweb mailing list rtcweb@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Leon Geyser
- [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Wolfgang Beck
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Mohammed Raad
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Karl Stahl
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Markus.Isomaki
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI bryandonnovan
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Mohammed Raad
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Daniel-Constantin Mierla
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Mohammed Raad
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Mohammed Raad
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Making both VP8 and H264 MTI Martin J. Dürst