Re: [rtcweb] Why voting is not a viable process for the IETF (Was: Last day for any additional Video Codec Selection alternatives )
SM <sm@resistor.net> Thu, 28 November 2013 22:45 UTC
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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 14:05:48 -0800
To: Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org>, cowwoc <cowwoc@bbs.darktech.org>, Bernard Aboba <bernard_aboba@hotmail.com>, Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
From: SM <sm@resistor.net>
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Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Why voting is not a viable process for the IETF (Was: Last day for any additional Video Codec Selection alternatives )
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At 13:03 28-11-2013, Emil Ivov wrote: >Exactly the kind of questions that the IETF does NOT handle. In my humble opinion it does. >It has to be clear in advance that voting is a possible outcome of >all discussions. It has to be clear who will be allowed to vote and, >just as importantly, who won't be. A good practice would be to then >contact potentially interested parties and inform them of the >process and voting conditions so that they can choose to get >involved and make sure they satisfy those conditions. There are some details in the message at http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg09909.html about the eligibility rules. I think that I may be eligible but I am not sure. >The rules that are currently being presented are EXPLICITLY >PREVENTING people from getting involved in the process and becoming >a part of the vote from now on. This is such a glaring deficiency >that I am amazed we are still discussing the option. It is to prevent breaking the rules to gain unfair advantage. :-) >The rules that have been presented basically sound like: "here are >the people that we think will produce the result we are looking for" I have not looked into the details to take a guess about whether it is possible to predict the outcome. Several decision-making alternatives have been put before this working group. It seems that there has been difficulty getting people to agree on how to find a way to agree. There isn't much an Area Director or a Working Group can do in those circumstances. At 13:40 28-11-2013, Bernard Aboba wrote: >So I fail to see how the outcome of this proposed vote could be >expected to convince someone who is concerned about legal/IPR issues >that their concerns have been addressed. Is legal counsel expected >to view the outcome and say "I had concerns relating to the >IPR/licensing risks of <insert codec here> but now that the IETF >RTCWEB WG has concluded its voting process, I realize that my >concerns were merely the invention of an over-active legal mind!" I would not conclude that there isn't any IPR issue based on the conclusion of the decision process. I am not keen about voting as it can be a problem in future. >[BA] I am SHOCKED, SHOCKED that such a thing could be going on here! >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME This is a moment of humor at in that video. :-) At 14:06 28-11-2013, Silvia Pfeiffer wrote: >Standards are created such that system are able to interoperate with >each other. Deciding to avoid the decision for an MTI and thus >creating non-interoperable rtcweb systems is giving up on >standardising interoperability. IMO that is very much a technical >question. Yes. Regards, -sm
- [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Codec … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Paul Giralt
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Martin Thomson
- [rtcweb] Adding additional text to to all options Frode Kileng
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Jean-Marc Valin
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [rtcweb] Last day for any additional Video Co… Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- [rtcweb] Why voting is not a viable process for t… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Why voting is not a viable process f… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Why voting is not a viable process f… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Why voting is not a viable process f… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Why voting is not a viable process f… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Why voting is not a viable process f… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Why voting is not a viable process f… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Why voting is not a viable process f… SM
- Re: [rtcweb] Why voting is not a viable process f… cowwoc