Re: [rtcweb] Preserving stream isolation when traversing the network

Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> Fri, 07 March 2014 11:16 UTC

Return-Path: <harald@alvestrand.no>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 988C01A01F5 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 03:16:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.447
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.447 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LZZSLCqLJ6TP for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 03:16:16 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mork.alvestrand.no (mork.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.117]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA9D1A0273 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 03:16:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565E37C325E; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 12:16:11 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no
Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rRemZS1-WV5K; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 12:16:09 +0100 (CET)
Received: from [IPv6:2001:67c:370:176:dc71:4cbb:f962:3326] (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:370:176:dc71:4cbb:f962:3326]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 745307C321C; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 12:16:09 +0100 (CET)
Message-ID: <5319AA78.4010808@alvestrand.no>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 12:16:08 +0100
From: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
References: <CABkgnnVZpOJU=2ip88jF=sa2a7K=jBhZA0zkovPo_vvTBwA-GQ@mail.gmail.com> <AE1A6B5FD507DC4FB3C5166F3A05A4844FABBEDF@TK5EX14MBXC296.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <CABkgnnUrCcDS4Ty+t2gAzXUXyZPuQeqK6nqG5b-egrBwYHr9BA@mail.gmail.com> <DB348EDA-A588-47B2-8FA5-988026831DAB@phonefromhere.com> <CABkgnnXPtT-xMZY1AvkL1eeR5e2kXh0UFBbvZO+pMWXBNseqmg@mail.gmail.com> <5319A60F.4080803@alvestrand.no> <CABkgnnVzMyTLChQjteXKtszWeV3H8-z7S1AW9nrkL3EvMQybgw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABkgnnVzMyTLChQjteXKtszWeV3H8-z7S1AW9nrkL3EvMQybgw@mail.gmail.com>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/kcaaXiLaUZ0gPlaleSt9r3eKrMU
Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Preserving stream isolation when traversing the network
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 11:16:20 -0000

On 03/07/2014 12:04 PM, Martin Thomson wrote:
> On 7 March 2014 10:57, Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> wrote:
>> I think that's a very specialized use case.
> While I agree with much of the rest of your argument, casting this as
> specialized does our future users a disservice, I think.
>
> I appreciate that some companies consider their "value-add" to be so
> compelling that isolation is something they would not consider.  That
> doesn't mean that everyone will.
There may be people in both camps. Probably will be.

I don't think that "companies' value-add" matters in this situation.
What matters is whether JS access to the media is necessary to achieve
the applications' purpose.

We've seen virtual drum kits that you play by waving your hands in front
of a camera. That application simply can't be made without JS access to
media; it's inherent in what the function is.

That's my point - there are many such applications.


-- 
Surveillance is pervasive. Go Dark.