Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions....
Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com> Tue, 09 December 2014 20:11 UTC
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From: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 12:10:51 -0800
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To: David Singer <singer@apple.com>
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions....
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David Singer said: "I am trying to find out a simple answer: how many endpoints would, in fact, expect to support both codecs?" [BA] The proposal has built-in incentives for implementers in each category to either ignore the recommendations or ignore interoperability (or both). As it stands, the proposal doesn't require that "WebRTC-compatible endpoints" support either H.264 or VP8. I understand why an endpoint not supporting video shouldn't have to, but if the WebRTC-compatible endpoint does support video, why shouldn't it support at least one of the MTI codecs? The way it is written a WebRTC-compatible endpoint that supported only H.261 would be compliant while being able to communicate with either browsers or non-browsers, which seems silly. The "non-browser" is required to support both codecs, but only until a clause is triggered to choose a single MTI. For a "non-browser" such as a mobile application, there is no real need to support both VP8 and H.264, assuming that browsers support both. So I would expect most folks in this category to ignore the recommendation or wait for the "trigger" (then ignore that too if the selected codec isn't the one they've already chosen). It would make more sense for this category to mandate implementation of either VP8 or H.264 (implementer's choice) and dump the trigger clause. The "browser" subset is supposed to support both codecs. However, the "trigger" clause for the "non-browser" case muddies the waters, particularly in situations where implementing a previously non-supported codec could take a while. Who wants to spend a lot of effort implementing a codec that might not even be required by the time the implementation is complete (and that will probably be guaranteed to be obsolete by then anyway)? On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 11:35 AM, David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote: > > > On Dec 9, 2014, at 11:31 , Mohammed Raad <mohammedsraad@raadtech.com> > wrote: > > > > You know, that's a very strange path to take. I mean it really does > sound like attempting to come to an agreement regarding what features > future products should have by limiting participation in this technical > decision process to those committed to deploy specific technologies. I > think you ought to read the definition of anti competitive practice again. > > Please be respectful of your language. > > I am trying to find out a simple answer: how many endpoints would, in > fact, expect to support both codecs? > > > I am not trying to limit participation. I am trying to find out whether > we would actually get the purported effect. > > If all the people humming yes make webrtc-compatible endpoints, we do not > get the effect we want. Is it that hard to see that? > > > > David Singer > Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc. > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >
- [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... tim panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Simon Perreault
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... tim panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Gustavo Garcia
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Simon Perreault
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Cavigioli, Chris
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Cavigioli, Chris
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Mohammed Raad
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Mohammed Raad
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Ron
- [rtcweb] Incentives (Re: Video codecs: Clear posi… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Alexandre GOUAILLARD
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Richard Barnes
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions.... Ron