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Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC calls, not +1 (Re: Requiring ICE for RTC calls)

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Tue, 27 September 2011 22:52 UTC

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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 15:54:16 -0700
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To: Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
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Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Solutions sought for non-ICE RTC calls, not +1 (Re: Requiring ICE for RTC calls)
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On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com> wrote:

>
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> It's really a mistake to conflate ICE and SRTP here. If the user opets not
>> to use SRTP,
>> he's primarily hurting himself. If he opts not to use ICE, he's
>> potentially allowing his
>> browser to be used as an attack platform. These are not the same thing.
>>
>>
> We are not disabling SRTP and ICE. We stop requiring them for the call and
> allow to process offers and answers without ICE or SAVP. Offer generated by
> RTC should still include "crypto" attributes and ICE candidates. But offers
> and answers without "crypto" and ICE candidates should be processed for an
> application distributed by this site. We can separate those two settings but
> this is primarily the function of use trusting the site vs. not trusting it.
>
>

I'm sorry, but I think you're still missing the point: requiring ICE *is*
the security
feature.



> As for what's convenient for developers... I'm a developer, and while it
>> might be useful
>> to allow a setting to disable ICE and/or SRTP, that doesn't mean I need to
>> expose that
>> setting to the user. I really don't understand the virtue of a
>> user-visible setting to
>> disable the ICE requirement.
>>
>> -Ekr
>>
>>
>
> Same reason we allow to add exception for an invalid SSL certificate. This
> will allow us to work with end points that are currently available vs just
> other RTC clients.
>
> BTW, mechanism similar to SSL certificate exceptions is probably the best
> way to implement this. First time an application from a web site gets an
> answer without ICE or SRTP, we can show the dialog box and ask user if this
> application should be stopped, allowed for current session or allowed
> always.
>

The problem is that users inevitably click through such dialogs and when
they do their
browsers become an attack platform. That's why this isn't comparable.

-Ekr

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