Re: [rtcweb] Counting NOs (Re: Straw Poll on Nokia mincing)

[Eric Rescorla <[e-mail]>]

On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Monty Montgomery <[e-mail]> wrote:
> I never said there was a consensus call. The industry is deploying
> Opus where they are loathe to deploy VP8.  There is obviously wide
> belief it is safe to do so.  That's what consensus means.
>
> The IETF neither legislates nor monopolizes consensus.

In the context of an IETF WG, "determined by consensus" generally means that
the WG made a determination. If the WG didn't make such a determination
but some other group did, it would probably be appropriate to qualify the group
that made the determination. For instance:

"Opus had a number of IPR declarations against it determined by
the consensus of those who thought they were completely spurious to
be completely spurious."


> The IETF didn't invent rough consensus. Nor it has stamped out the
> idea elsewhere.  I'm not playing silly gotcha word games, and neither
> was Jack.

Actually, I think that's pretty much what the above bit about the
IETF not legislating consensus consists of.


> If I (we) are right or wrong, it's on the merit of the arguments, not
> use of punctuation, mispelingz, or brainos, or intentional misreadings
> of others' points.  Honest misunderstanding is one thing.  Not caring
> if you understand [and feigning outrage] is quite another.

What an interesting passive aggressive way of accusing me of
acting in bad faith (seeing as you're responding to me, I'm assuming
that's who this is directed at).


Let's recap the history.

 Jack wrote that:
"Opus had several of these. It is still MTI for WebRTC because the
group was convinced the claims are spurious. "

In support of this, you wrote:

You wrote that "Opus had a number of IPR declarations against it determined by
consensus to be completely spurious.  I read nothing incorrect in
Jack's comment."

How shocking that someone would read your message as having to do with
the IETF WG, given that Jack's statement referenced "the group"

-Ekr