Re: [rtcweb] VP8 vs H.264 - subjective evaluation

Krasimir Kolarov <kolarov@apple.com> Tue, 22 October 2013 23:47 UTC

Return-Path: <kolarov@apple.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 019FC11E82AB for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 16:47:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2w2bBv7Hk0Hr for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 16:46:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-out.apple.com (bramley.apple.com [17.151.62.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 161F411E82AA for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 16:46:44 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Received: from relay8.apple.com ([17.128.113.102]) by mail-out.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-23.01 (7.0.4.23.0) 64bit (built Aug 10 2011)) with ESMTP id <0MV300C1DGN11MQ0@mail-out.apple.com> for rtcweb@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 16:46:26 -0700 (PDT)
X-AuditID: 11807166-b7f8c6d000004b57-75-52670e51caf9
Received: from [17.197.34.68] (Unknown_Domain [17.197.34.68]) (using TLS with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by relay8.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with SMTP id 75.1C.19287.15E07625; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 16:46:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Krasimir Kolarov <kolarov@apple.com>
In-reply-to: <52665274.9080705@alvestrand.no>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 16:46:29 -0700
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Message-id: <832B3A68-D7D1-4A1E-8C68-994CED97D6B5@apple.com>
References: <52665274.9080705@alvestrand.no>
To: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>, "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1812)
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprKLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUieFTJRTeQLz3IYM1aG4tjfV1sFmv/tbM7 MHlcmXCF1WPJkp9MAUxRXDYpqTmZZalF+nYJXBk9uy+wFdziqlj0aB9bA+M9ji5GTg4JAROJ CWdXsUDYYhIX7q1n62Lk4hAS6GaSOHdyAytIgllAT2LH9V9gNi+QfeXxdrAGYQEriTOzHrGD 2GwCWhId13rYQGxOAV2Jzx8uM4LYLAKqElPPnmeDmKMtsWzha2aIOTYSc07NAOrlAFqmI9G4 TxokLCIQLLHq9B8WkLCEgKzEp8NmExj5ZiE5YhaSI2YhGbqAkXkVo0BRak5ipYVeYkFBTqpe cn7uJkZQYDUUpu1gbFpudYhRgINRiYf3QUtakBBrYllxZe4hRgkOZiUR3mZfoBBvSmJlVWpR fnxRaU5q8SFGaQ4WJXFerz9AKYH0xJLU7NTUgtQimCwTB6dUA2OsH1eOBNucVakdK31WcJye dS1lJ/uKrysZ32qJsL83jd+UK1M6VVNk54JLxw5tmOp955Mby6bVRwLm2mz54b4jYGf4v3iW bLYPlRlJa5YbFZY8WKP5+8x/pqgvtw15El5FZYtH1bsu15a79MZ2a5DInh8KM3o32v66ujZr ltwephX1WSn3GZcosRRnJBpqMRcVJwIAWSH3vCgCAAA=
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] VP8 vs H.264 - subjective evaluation
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 23:47:01 -0000

To be very clear for the IETF community:

As Harald’s slide deck notes on Slide 2, these subjective test results were not presented nor discussed at MPEG meetings. Hence they only reflect the opinion of the VP8 proponents.

The only subjective tests that were presented at the meeting compared VP8 and IVC (the Internet Video Coding proposal considered by Mpeg, which is different than AVC Constrained Baseline). 
Those tests raised a lot of controversy during discussions at the meeting and in fact some of the results had to be excluded because of significant differences in comparison conditions (rate control, etc.). This is not unlike recent discussions on this reflector about comparisons of VP8 and H.264 Constrained Baseline. 

Krasimir

On Oct 22, 2013, at 3:24 AM, Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> wrote:

> In my VP8 advocate draft, I referred to a subjective evaluation test
> (test with
> actual human viewers) done between VP8 and H.264 Baseline by a neutral
> (non-Google) laboratory.
> 
> The attached presentation is the writeup of the results of that test.
> 
> -- 
> Surveillance is pervasive. Go Dark.
> 
> <VP8 vs AVC Baselinev2.pdf>_______________________________________________
> rtcweb mailing list
> rtcweb@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb