Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward

Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> Thu, 14 November 2013 10:22 UTC

Return-Path: <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43F9A21E80B9 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 02:22:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -103.707
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.707 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.108, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UXcKfdS6TLMC for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 02:22:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: from sesbmg20.ericsson.net (sesbmg20.ericsson.net [193.180.251.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3E8D21E815A for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 02:22:12 -0800 (PST)
X-AuditID: c1b4fb38-b7f2c8e000006d25-af-5284a453ed57
Received: from ESESSHC023.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by sesbmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id DD.DF.27941.354A4825; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 11:22:11 +0100 (CET)
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.89) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.2.328.9; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 11:22:11 +0100
Message-ID: <5284A4A2.3050107@ericsson.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 11:23:30 +0100
From: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Leon Geyser <lgeyser@gmail.com>, "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
References: <5283DFDC.4010906@ericsson.com> <CAD6AjGQwhmhmpJh7=ORYc=FRQMnOO=1vCNMCmXaYFXmC71rKMQ@mail.gmail.com> <52845E10.4040205@bbs.darktech.org> <CAGgHUiRcg8=a+Djg5eAywfuwO4vrfRvDfxFH8KBWNs9TP5mPOw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAGgHUiRcg8=a+Djg5eAywfuwO4vrfRvDfxFH8KBWNs9TP5mPOw@mail.gmail.com>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmplluLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGfG3Vjd4SUuQwZ9l0hbdq2exWaz9187u wOSxc9Zddo8lS34yBTBFcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGVc+vSNpeCbeMWdbVNZGhgXCXUxcnJICJhI XFjaywZhi0lcuLceyObiEBI4wijxZ/9kFghnOaPE0Y1/mECqeAW0Jeb1fGMFsVkEVCVO/TvF AmKzCVhI3PzRCDZJVCBY4vyrxewQ9YISJ2c+AasREfCQmHFtNVAvB4ewgKXEheMmEPNvMkr8 eHIDbCanQKDE/rfn2EBqJATEJXoag0DCzAJ6ElOutjBC2PISzVtnM4PYQkDnNDR1sE5gFJyF ZNssJC2zkLQsYGRexchRnFqclJtuZLCJERiUB7f8ttjBePmvzSFGaQ4WJXHej2+dg4QE0hNL UrNTUwtSi+KLSnNSiw8xMnFwSjUwzryR9P9m+7yXr/K3G11nbJUvvMsVu136j4rGB0stSYvm GT95rU1F/Pf4CJz8/PbR2+eyVbf4L041jb2wo2PucRPvCqVzRxI05FkXJnDmVq+73fLo7K2y qW+XelutrJDp9vK3Wmh26PDpukn/41XzixQb3q+emb7x58Ne8d9uJ2ImRpt8P5/7UYmlOCPR UIu5qDgRALvpKesYAgAA
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:22:18 -0000

Hi,

I have currently not added this SHOULD alternative to the list.

I think the important question is what alternatives in regard to what
will be required to implement, i.e. Mandatory to Implement.

After we have run this process regarding mandatory to implement we can
consider additional recommendations that the WG likes to make.

Cheers

Magnus

On 2013-11-14 08:23, Leon Geyser wrote:
>>>SHOULD doesn't carry any accountability. Anyone will tell you they
> have a "real good reason" to avoid implementing one >>codec or another.
> We've heard plenty of excuses on this list of why one party or another
> believes it is legally risky to >>implement VP8 or H.264, respectively.
> So in that sense, it is meaningless.
> 
> I agree. SHOULD is just like 'no MTI' and point 5 also implies 'no MTI'
> 
> 
> On 14 November 2013 07:22, cowwoc <cowwoc@bbs.darktech.org
> <mailto:cowwoc@bbs.darktech.org>> wrote:
> 
>     On 13/11/2013 11:11 PM, cb.list6 wrote:
> 
> 
>         Why no SHOULD implement vp8 and h248? SHOULD means you will do
>         it unless you have a real good reason.
> 
> 
>     SHOULD doesn't carry any accountability. Anyone will tell you they
>     have a "real good reason" to avoid implementing one codec or
>     another. We've heard plenty of excuses on this list of why one party
>     or another believes it is legally risky to implement VP8 or H.264,
>     respectively. So in that sense, it is meaningless.
> 
> 
>         MUST is too hard for this WG.  Many implementations have a
>         really good reason to not do vp8 OR h248.
> 
>         Saying that all webrtc MUST do one or the other or both is
>         disingenuous.
> 
>         SHOULD for both is as good as we are going to get with this
>         complicated IPR environment.  Using MUST is simply not going to
>         work and we have 10,000 on this mailer to back that up.
> 
> 
>     What you say is true, but if we accept this (and go with SHOULD) we
>     are essentially ending up with "no MTI" which leads to the dark side
>     (transcoding or dropped calls).
> 
>     Rock --> WebRTC <-- Hard place :)
> 
>     Gili
> 
>     _________________________________________________
>     rtcweb mailing list
>     rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/__listinfo/rtcweb
>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> rtcweb mailing list
> rtcweb@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
> 


-- 

Magnus Westerlund

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB                | Phone  +46 10 7148287
Färögatan 6                | Mobile +46 73 0949079
SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------