Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support is a MUST
"Dan Wing" <dwing@cisco.com> Fri, 20 July 2012 17:29 UTC
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From: Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com>
To: rtcweb@ietf.org
References: <201207190742.q6J7glf6008744@vivaldi29.register.it> <500834FE.5040809@alcatel-lucent.com> <500835E1.2070502@infosecurity.ch> <50084717.7060301@alcatel-lucent.com> <BLU169-DS1488EF1F32A1EB2027582093D90@phx.gbl> <5008F7B9.7020804@infosecurity.ch> <500957ED.90807@alvestrand.no> <50095AAC.7030104@infosecurity.ch> <50095CE7.6030202@alvestrand.no> <CABcZeBM4BwtUyr=MTft0SXSwhUO0vczWd0jOVUO=ea2SYiEcZA@mail.gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:30:03 -0700
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support is a MUST
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> -----Original Message----- > From: rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Eric Rescorla > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 6:50 AM > To: Harald Alvestrand > Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support is a MUST > > The draft currently states: > > * The "security characteristics" MUST include some mechanism to > allow an out-of-band verification of the peer, such as a > certificate fingerprint or an SAS. > > I'd be happy to have us specify a particular fingerprint algorithm > (presumably > SHA-256, potentially truncated) but I haven't seen any evidence that > users savvy enough to inspect the fingerprint at all can't navigate > more > than one hash. For example, Chrome's SSL/TLS inspector currently > displays > MD5 and SHA-1. So I'm not sure something needs to be standardized here. Users are unreliable to do this. I would look at TLS key pinning or similar techniques. That is what ZRTP is doing to avoid speaking a SAS for every phone call. Again (for the group), DTLS-SRTP allows us to build identity validation such as key pinning or a SAS or third-party IdP, but SDESC does not allow us to build identity validation. -d > -Ekr > > > On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Harald Alvestrand > <harald@alvestrand.no> wrote: > > On 07/20/2012 03:18 PM, Fabio Pietrosanti (naif) wrote: > >> > >> On 7/20/12 3:06 PM, Harald Alvestrand wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Current security definition of WebRTC does not support end-to-end > >>>> security. > >>> > >>> The current security definition of WebRTC (with DTLS) provides > >>> fingerprints. > >>> If the application is able to verify those fingerprints, security > is end > >>> to end; if it isn't - it isn't. > >> > >> The security specification already does specify how the fingerprint > must > >> be checked, against a third party system that must be trusted > (unless > >> there is some recent update i didn't still checked). > >> > >> The way the specification describe fingerprint must be checked, does > not > >> enforce end-to-end security but always rely on trusted third party, > >> being IdP (identity providers). > >> > >> The only way to achieve end-to-end security is not to have any kind > of > >> trusted third party, as has been already discussed on > >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg04043.html . > > > > That link is your request to have SAS considered mandatory. > > > > I believe you got some support for that proposal, or at least some > kind of > > availability of digest information that can be verified > independently, but I > > do not believe that you got any support for having SAS be the one and > only > > definition of "end to end security". > > > > Thus, you may get support for your real request, but not for the > language > > you use to describe it. > > > >> > >> Until WebRTC security architecture specification does not clearly > define > >> a peer-to-peer fingerprint verification system that does not rely on > >> trusted third party it cannot be considered to provide end-to-end > >> security. > >> > >> Fabio > >> _______________________________________________ > >> rtcweb mailing list > >> rtcweb@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > rtcweb mailing list > > rtcweb@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
- [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support is a… Domenico Colella
- Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support … Igor Faynberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support … Fabio Pietrosanti (naif)
- Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support … Igor Faynberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support … Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support … Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support … Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support … Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support … Fabio Pietrosanti (naif)
- Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support … Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support … Fabio Pietrosanti (naif)
- Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support … Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support … Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support … Alan Johnston
- Re: [rtcweb] Security Architecture: SDES support … domenico.colella