Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID for protocol multiplexing)
Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> Mon, 10 February 2014 04:57 UTC
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 05:56:52 +0100
From: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID for protocol multiplexing)
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On 02/08/2014 02:14 AM, Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju) wrote: > That's good. Glad to see that no one liked the complex alternate option... yet! :-) > I just put it there for completeness and some discussion. > With "utf-8 on wire", which I too think is the right approach, there is some spec work todo: > 1. Define IANA utf-8 ppid. Creating a new one is better instead of replacing existing DOMString as DOMString may be used by browsers for sometime to come and also to have backward compatibility/interworking. Have you ever seen UTF-16 on the wire in the DataChannel protocol? > 2. Data channel core spec (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel-06#section-6.6) need to specify explictly the wire format is utf-8. Fully agreed. > > Then browsers need to do the conversion from utf-16 DOMstring to utf-8 before writing on wire also in the reverse direction. > > -Raju > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Christer Holmberg [mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com] >> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 6:01 PM >> To: Martin Thomson; Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju) >> Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCWEB Data Channel: >> Usage of PPID for protocol multiplexing) >> >> >> + 1 >> >> Regards, >> >> Christer >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: rtcweb [rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Martin Thomson >> [martin.thomson@gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, 08 February 2014 1:45 AM >> To: Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju) >> Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCWEB Data Channel: >> Usage of PPID for protocol multiplexing) >> >> I don't think that we need any complication here. It's a string. >> >> Strings are UTF-8 on the wire. >> >> Strings are UTF-16 (mostly) in JavaScript. >> >> Anything else would generate pain. >> >> On 7 February 2014 14:01, Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju) >> <Raju.Makaraju@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: >>>>>> Also, I think "DOMString" PPID is too specific to Javascript, instead >> it >>>> should probably have a generic name like "UTF-16 String". The send API >> can >>>> still use DOMString as this is Javascript API. >>>>> Any comments from others? >>>> Note: The WebSockets protocol defines the transferred strings as UTF-8. >>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6455#section-5.6 >>>> >>>> As far as I can tell, we've always intended to follow that example. >>>> >>>> The fact that Javascript implementations currently choose to represent >>>> text strings as UTF-16 at their API is sad, but not an argument for >>>> sending that particular text representation over the wire, or reflecting >>>> the name in the API. >>> [Raju] I agree that using UTF-8 is desired and more appropriate! Then, >> should the PPID be changed from "DOMString" to "UTF-8"? Javascript based >> apps have to use some library to do the conversion of DOMString/UTF-16 to >> UTF-8. Alternatively, browsers can do this conversion under the APIs (send >> and onmessage) before sending and after receiving UTF-8 PPID data. >>> Without such conversion webrtc interworking between browsers and native >> clients will be problematic (basically, will not work). >>> Another option, which is more flexible, is to define PPIDs for different >> encodings like "UTF-8", "UTF-16" (or even "base64" for binary to text >> instead of using "binary" directly); then pass this encoding information to >> send() and onmessage() calls, which will use these PPIDs. Passing encoding >> information might be implicit (like Javavscript DOMString) in most languages >> by the type of the argument to send. This way it is upto the application to >> deal with the encoding conversions as it see fits. >>> The latter approach is best suitable for interworking between clients of >> similar type (web or native); but it is bit painful (to do conversions) for >> clients of different types. >>> I am wondering what kind of API calls native WebRTC API stacks (e.g. >> Google Chrome's http://www.webrtc.org/webrtc-native-code-package) provide >> for data channel send/onmessage ()? UTF-16 strings? Or UTF-8? >>> -Raju >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> rtcweb mailing list >>> rtcweb@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb -- Surveillance is pervasive. Go Dark.
- [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID for p… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Michael Tuexen
- [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCWEB D… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: message interle… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] RTCWEB Data Channel: Usage of PPID f… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] PPID, UTF-16 and DOMString (Re: RTCW… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)