Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward
Maik Merten <maikmerten@googlemail.com> Mon, 18 November 2013 08:21 UTC
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:22:45 +0100
From: Maik Merten <maikmerten@googlemail.com>
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References: <D9C9C6C10CA24644B3A854DB0C12E7D5014C12B5F1@gbplmail03.genband.com> <52891EDB.2050607@googlemail.com> <6A06EACB-69E2-4CE0-BDF2-1FDFD71159D3@gmail.com> <52892DD8.9050105@librevideo.org> <7DB56E1B-C97D-4D39-AA07-C4857CE3470D@gmail.com> <CAGgHUiR68pWTzORF6=R=nSi8zHeA2PxoPX33uxDRrpv6JZtykA@mail.gmail.com> <003e01cee435$be1f3940$3a5dabc0$@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward
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H.263 seems to be covered by the MPEG-4 Visual patent pool and appears to require licensing: http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/M4V/Documents/M4VCrossRef.pdf Maik Am 18.11.2013 09:11, schrieb Thomas Reisinger: > Thank you Leon. Why should we go with h.261 (except the lower cpu > requirements for en/decoding), when we have a very popular royalty free > h.263 as a common base for most video participants? > > Cheers, > > Thomas Reisinger > > *From:*Leon Geyser [mailto:lgeyser@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Montag, 18. November 2013 08:13 > *To:* rtcweb@ietf.org > *Cc:* Basil Mohamed Gohar; Thomas Reisinger > *Subject:* Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward > > Hi Thomas, > > On this list there seem to be patents listed from 1997 to 2011 for H.263: > > http://www.itu.int/net4/ipr/search.aspx?sector=ITU&class=PS&country=-1&org=-1&rec=H.263&prod=H.263&ps_country=-1&opt=-1&field=anokwcvd > > On 18 November 2013 08:51, Thomas Reisinger <treising75@gmail.com > <mailto:treising75@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Team, > > I had the same concerns about the royalty fee, but after some > research I think there aren't any more. For h.264 this still > applies. H.261 is not acceptable anymore in a HD world as it is > today. Maybe somebody else cloud put some light on the royalty fees > for h.263. I will continue my research. > > Cheers, > > Thomas Reisinger > > > > On 17.11.2013, at 21:58, Basil Mohamed Gohar > <basilgohar@librevideo.org <mailto:basilgohar@librevideo.org>> wrote: > > > > Thomas, > > > > The reason H.261 is even being considered is because it is an > old-enough > > specification that any patents on it should have now expired. > Patents, > > and their liability on existing video formats, are amongst the > biggest > > factors affecting which formats can be adopted into the rtcweb > standard. > > > > H.263 most likely (I haven't checked) still has patents > associated with > > it that are active and, therefore, present an issue unless the > > respective owners of said patents have publicly declared them > royalty-free. > > > >> On 11/17/2013 03:13 PM, Thomas Reisinger wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> Instead of h.261, I would recommend h.263 as a common base. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Thomas > >> Sent from mobile device > >> > >>> On 17 Nov 2013, at 20:54, Maik Merten > <maikmerten@googlemail.com <mailto:maikmerten@googlemail.com>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hello, > >>> > >>> just wondering if something like > >>> > >>> "9. All entities SHOULD support both H.264 and VP8. All > entities MUST at least implement one of those. Entities that do not > support both H.264 and VP8 MUST implement H.261." > >>> > >>> has already popped up. My reasoning is that implementations > supporting both high performance codecs will always negotiate to use > on of those - H.261 should never be relevant there. > >>> > >>> It appears that all implementors are willing to implement > either H.264 or VP8 (but not necessarily both). This obviously means > that negotiation failure regarding a high-performance codec is a > possiblity. In this case H.261 is actually useful so that basic > video calls can still be established (for instance, I guess deaf > people may always appreciate a video connection, as long as sign > language can be transmitted). > >>> > >>> > >>> Maik > >>> > >>> > >>> Am 14.11.2013 12:37, schrieb Jeremy Fuller: > >>>> Hi, > >>>> Gaining IETF consensus on making it mandatory to support only > H.264 or > >>>> only VP8 has clearly failed. I would welcome anyone to share their > >>>> thoughts on why they believe this situation will change > anytime in the > >>>> next few years. Therefore, can I suggest that we remove items > 1 and 2 > >>>> from the list. Hopefully this will speed up the process by > focusing > >>>> efforts towards gaining agreement on one of the remaining options. > >>>> The following alternatives has been proposed: > >>>> > >>>> 1. All entities MUST support H.264 > >>>> 2. All entities MUST support VP8 > >>>> 3. All entities MUST support both H.264 and VP8 > >>>> 4. Browsers MUST support both H.264 and VP8, other entities MUST > >>>> support at least one of H.264 and VP8 > >>>> 5. All entities MUST support at least one of H.264 and VP8 > >>>> 6. All entities MUST support H.261 > >>>> 7. There is no MTI video codec > >>>> 8. All entities MUST support H.261 and all entities MUST > support at > >>>> least one of H.264 and VP8 > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Jeremy Fuller > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> rtcweb mailing list > >>>> rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org> > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> rtcweb mailing list > >> rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > >> > > > > > > -- > > Libre Video > > http://librevideo.org > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >
- [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gonzalo Camarillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cb.list6
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Robin Raymond
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gustavo Garcia
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gonzalo Camarillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gonzalo Camarillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Jeremy Fuller
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Thomas Reisinger
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Thomas Reisinger
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Ross Finlayson
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Thomas Reisinger
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- [rtcweb] H.263 licensing situation Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- [rtcweb] Reference implementation of software cod… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Reference implementation of software… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Reference implementation of software… Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Steve Kann
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Monty Montgomery
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Matt Fredrickson
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Enrico Marocco
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Matthew Kaufman
- [rtcweb] cisco binary on ec2 Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] cisco binary on ec2 Matt Fredrickson
- Re: [rtcweb] cisco binary on ec2 Lorenzo Miniero
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cb.list6
- [rtcweb] H.264 CBP (was: Video codec selection - … cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] H.264 CBP (was: Video codec selectio… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] H.264 CBP (was: Video codec selectio… Stefan Slivinski
- Re: [rtcweb] cisco binary on ec2 Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] cisco binary on ec2 cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] cisco binary on ec2 Roman Shpount