Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward
Thomas Reisinger <treising75@gmail.com> Mon, 18 November 2013 06:52 UTC
Return-Path: <treising75@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1886B11E857E for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 17 Nov 2013 22:52:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.203
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7LgjBAYHZI64 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 17 Nov 2013 22:52:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-wi0-x234.google.com (mail-wi0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF4111E855A for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Sun, 17 Nov 2013 22:52:00 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-wi0-f180.google.com with SMTP id ey16so3360580wid.1 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Sun, 17 Nov 2013 22:52:00 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to; bh=/Y4iAW3eq3Feb//2GKfK/W2NKu+xOzIIbQIOx8KaJdI=; b=qIZ3r3q+/upToHK+9dwO6TAA3WEgHJFe4x5IX/kBn8mTPY2XXpcA4MmiF+GgDMhVXQ vute1tO98PJORRcpnOaovselAC7qvmYm0dqCP7Mouv1C9tDhX+r+362WfhgwTdEumpVq nF4ao++A6+MLZoIXrdSV5rNhMvdP63ubkXqsix4HfLx4qJqt2Yih9qzjJchwLJcB/MoC d/COWL/3U9URaNCeI2ARKYGSKLZWUNknoiShbQfgZJWBZMWpIsLRr0UcnmWY2k6F5Cm7 ALPH8mn3dZXlmeZ1CPTantoB+ZL8kd2nV9JvTmiKFPisORU0Gbrtq+UBiPQZgTPuTSOR +Oow==
X-Received: by 10.180.79.230 with SMTP id m6mr15736448wix.19.1384757519753; Sun, 17 Nov 2013 22:51:59 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.202] (77.119.226.28.static.drei.at. [77.119.226.28]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id gm2sm21059263wib.4.2013.11.17.22.51.58 for <multiple recipients> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 17 Nov 2013 22:51:59 -0800 (PST)
References: <D9C9C6C10CA24644B3A854DB0C12E7D5014C12B5F1@gbplmail03.genband.com> <52891EDB.2050607@googlemail.com> <6A06EACB-69E2-4CE0-BDF2-1FDFD71159D3@gmail.com> <52892DD8.9050105@librevideo.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
In-Reply-To: <52892DD8.9050105@librevideo.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <7DB56E1B-C97D-4D39-AA07-C4857CE3470D@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11B554a)
From: Thomas Reisinger <treising75@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 07:51:53 +0100
To: Basil Mohamed Gohar <basilgohar@librevideo.org>
Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 06:52:02 -0000
Team, I had the same concerns about the royalty fee, but after some research I think there aren't any more. For h.264 this still applies. H.261 is not acceptable anymore in a HD world as it is today. Maybe somebody else cloud put some light on the royalty fees for h.263. I will continue my research. Cheers, Thomas Reisinger > On 17.11.2013, at 21:58, Basil Mohamed Gohar <basilgohar@librevideo.org> wrote: > > Thomas, > > The reason H.261 is even being considered is because it is an old-enough > specification that any patents on it should have now expired. Patents, > and their liability on existing video formats, are amongst the biggest > factors affecting which formats can be adopted into the rtcweb standard. > > H.263 most likely (I haven't checked) still has patents associated with > it that are active and, therefore, present an issue unless the > respective owners of said patents have publicly declared them royalty-free. > >> On 11/17/2013 03:13 PM, Thomas Reisinger wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Instead of h.261, I would recommend h.263 as a common base. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Thomas >> Sent from mobile device >> >>> On 17 Nov 2013, at 20:54, Maik Merten <maikmerten@googlemail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> just wondering if something like >>> >>> "9. All entities SHOULD support both H.264 and VP8. All entities MUST at least implement one of those. Entities that do not support both H.264 and VP8 MUST implement H.261." >>> >>> has already popped up. My reasoning is that implementations supporting both high performance codecs will always negotiate to use on of those - H.261 should never be relevant there. >>> >>> It appears that all implementors are willing to implement either H.264 or VP8 (but not necessarily both). This obviously means that negotiation failure regarding a high-performance codec is a possiblity. In this case H.261 is actually useful so that basic video calls can still be established (for instance, I guess deaf people may always appreciate a video connection, as long as sign language can be transmitted). >>> >>> >>> Maik >>> >>> >>> Am 14.11.2013 12:37, schrieb Jeremy Fuller: >>>> Hi, >>>> Gaining IETF consensus on making it mandatory to support only H.264 or >>>> only VP8 has clearly failed. I would welcome anyone to share their >>>> thoughts on why they believe this situation will change anytime in the >>>> next few years. Therefore, can I suggest that we remove items 1 and 2 >>>> from the list. Hopefully this will speed up the process by focusing >>>> efforts towards gaining agreement on one of the remaining options. >>>> The following alternatives has been proposed: >>>> >>>> 1. All entities MUST support H.264 >>>> 2. All entities MUST support VP8 >>>> 3. All entities MUST support both H.264 and VP8 >>>> 4. Browsers MUST support both H.264 and VP8, other entities MUST >>>> support at least one of H.264 and VP8 >>>> 5. All entities MUST support at least one of H.264 and VP8 >>>> 6. All entities MUST support H.261 >>>> 7. There is no MTI video codec >>>> 8. All entities MUST support H.261 and all entities MUST support at >>>> least one of H.264 and VP8 >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Jeremy Fuller >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> rtcweb mailing list >>>> rtcweb@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >>>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> > > > -- > Libre Video > http://librevideo.org >
- [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gonzalo Camarillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cb.list6
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Robin Raymond
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gustavo Garcia
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gonzalo Camarillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gonzalo Camarillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Jeremy Fuller
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Thomas Reisinger
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Thomas Reisinger
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Ross Finlayson
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Thomas Reisinger
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- [rtcweb] H.263 licensing situation Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- [rtcweb] Reference implementation of software cod… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Reference implementation of software… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Reference implementation of software… Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Steve Kann
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Monty Montgomery
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Matt Fredrickson
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Enrico Marocco
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Matthew Kaufman
- [rtcweb] cisco binary on ec2 Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] cisco binary on ec2 Matt Fredrickson
- Re: [rtcweb] cisco binary on ec2 Lorenzo Miniero
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cb.list6
- [rtcweb] H.264 CBP (was: Video codec selection - … cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] H.264 CBP (was: Video codec selectio… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] H.264 CBP (was: Video codec selectio… Stefan Slivinski
- Re: [rtcweb] cisco binary on ec2 Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] cisco binary on ec2 cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] cisco binary on ec2 Roman Shpount