Re: [rtcweb] confirming sense of the room: mti codec

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Tue, 09 December 2014 22:01 UTC

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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 23:01:04 +0100
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To: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
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Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] confirming sense of the room: mti codec
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On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 9:31 PM, Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Allowing an endpoint that implements video to call itself "WebRTC
> compliant" without implementing either of the MTI codecs is so wrong-headed
> that I am at a loss for words.
>

I believe you have misread the proposal. The term "WebRTC compliant" never
appears
anywhere in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtcweb-video-03. Indeed,
the word
"compliant" does not appear.

Rather, endpoints which implement neither codec qualify as "WebRTC
Compatible".

-Ekr


> On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Erik Lagerway <erik@hookflash.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Sean,
>>
>> We can not support this draft at this time.
>>
>> As RTC SDK vendors we very likely will support both codecs, but we can
>> not stand by a decision that will "impose" dual MTI on our developer
>> community.
>>
>> According to this, every dev must use both codecs for every app that is
>> built using our tools. Codec selection should be their choice and not be
>> forced upon them. This seems to be a rather unreasonable expectation.
>>
>>
>> *Erik Lagerway <http://ca.linkedin.com/in/lagerway> | *Hookflash
>> <http://hookflash.com/>* | 1 (855) Hookflash ext. 2 | Twitter
>> <http://twitter.com/elagerway> | WebRTC.is Blog <http://webrtc.is/> *
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Sean Turner <turners@ieca.com> wrote:
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> At the 2nd RTCweb WG session @ IETF 91, we had a lively discussion about
>>> codecs, which I dubbed "the great codec compromise."  The compromise text
>>> that was discussed appears in slides 12-14 at [4] (which is a slight
>>> editorial variation of the text proposed at [2]).
>>>
>>> This message serves to confirm the sense of the room.
>>>
>>> In the room, I heard the following objections and responses (and I’m
>>> paraphrasing here), which I’ll take the liberty of categorizing as IPR,
>>> Time, and Trigger:
>>>
>>> 1) IPR:
>>>
>>> Objections: There are still IPR concerns which may restrict what a
>>> particular organization feels comfortable with including in their browser
>>> implementations.
>>>
>>> Response:  IPR concerns on this topic are well known.  There is even a
>>> draft summarizing the current IPR status for VP8:
>>> draft-benham-rtcweb-vp8litigation.  The sense of the room was still that
>>> adopting the compromise text was appropriate.
>>>
>>> 2) Time:
>>>
>>> 2.1) Time to consider decision:
>>>
>>> Objection: The decision to consider the compromise proposal at this
>>> meeting was provided on short notice and did not provide some the
>>> opportunity to attend in person.
>>>
>>> Response:  Six months ago the chairs made it clear discussion would be
>>> revisited @ IETF 91 [0]. The first agenda proposal for the WG included this
>>> topic [1], and the topic was never removed by the chairs.    More
>>> importantly, all decisions are confirmed on list; in person attendance is
>>> not required to be part of the process.
>>>
>>> 2.2) Time to consider text:
>>>
>>> Objection: The proposed text [2] is too new to be considered.
>>>
>>> Response: The requirement for browsers to support both VP8 and H.264 was
>>> among the options in the straw poll conducted more than six months ago.
>>> All decisions are confirmed on list so there will be ample time to discuss
>>> the proposal.
>>>
>>> 3) Trigger:
>>>
>>> Objection: The “trigger” sentence [3] is all kinds of wrong because it’s
>>> promising that the future IETF will update this specification.
>>>
>>> Response: Like any IETF proposal, an RFC that documents the current
>>> proposal can be changed through the consensus process at any other time.
>>>
>>>
>>> After the discussion, some clarifying questions about the hums, and
>>> typing the hum questions on the screen, there was rough consensus in the
>>> room to add (aka “shove”) the proposed text into draft-ietf-rtcweb-video.
>>> In keeping with IETF process, I am confirming this consensus call on the
>>> list.
>>>
>>> If anyone has any other issues that they would like to raise please do
>>> by December 19th.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> spt (as chair)
>>>
>>> [0] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg11194.html
>>> [1] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg13150.html
>>> [2] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg13432.html
>>> [3] The one that begins with "If compelling evidence ..."
>>> [4] http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/slides/slides-91-rtcweb-7.pdf
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> rtcweb mailing list
>>> rtcweb@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>>>
>>
>>
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>> rtcweb@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>>
>>
>
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