Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward
"Thomas Reisinger" <treising75@gmail.com> Mon, 18 November 2013 08:11 UTC
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From: Thomas Reisinger <treising75@gmail.com>
To: 'Leon Geyser' <lgeyser@gmail.com>, rtcweb@ietf.org
References: <D9C9C6C10CA24644B3A854DB0C12E7D5014C12B5F1@gbplmail03.genband.com> <52891EDB.2050607@googlemail.com> <6A06EACB-69E2-4CE0-BDF2-1FDFD71159D3@gmail.com> <52892DD8.9050105@librevideo.org> <7DB56E1B-C97D-4D39-AA07-C4857CE3470D@gmail.com> <CAGgHUiR68pWTzORF6=R=nSi8zHeA2PxoPX33uxDRrpv6JZtykA@mail.gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:11:09 +0100
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward
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Thank you Leon. Why should we go with h.261 (except the lower cpu requirements for en/decoding), when we have a very popular royalty free h.263 as a common base for most video participants? Cheers, Thomas Reisinger From: Leon Geyser [mailto:lgeyser@gmail.com] Sent: Montag, 18. November 2013 08:13 To: rtcweb@ietf.org Cc: Basil Mohamed Gohar; Thomas Reisinger Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Hi Thomas, On this list there seem to be patents listed from 1997 to 2011 for H.263: http://www.itu.int/net4/ipr/search.aspx?sector=ITU <http://www.itu.int/net4/ipr/search.aspx?sector=ITU&class=PS&country=-1&org= -1&rec=H.263&prod=H.263&ps_country=-1&opt=-1&field=anokwcvd> &class=PS&country=-1&org=-1&rec=H.263&prod=H.263&ps_country=-1&opt=-1&field= anokwcvd On 18 November 2013 08:51, Thomas Reisinger <treising75@gmail.com <mailto:treising75@gmail.com> > wrote: Team, I had the same concerns about the royalty fee, but after some research I think there aren't any more. For h.264 this still applies. H.261 is not acceptable anymore in a HD world as it is today. Maybe somebody else cloud put some light on the royalty fees for h.263. I will continue my research. Cheers, Thomas Reisinger > On 17.11.2013, at 21:58, Basil Mohamed Gohar <basilgohar@librevideo.org <mailto:basilgohar@librevideo.org> > wrote: > > Thomas, > > The reason H.261 is even being considered is because it is an old-enough > specification that any patents on it should have now expired. Patents, > and their liability on existing video formats, are amongst the biggest > factors affecting which formats can be adopted into the rtcweb standard. > > H.263 most likely (I haven't checked) still has patents associated with > it that are active and, therefore, present an issue unless the > respective owners of said patents have publicly declared them royalty-free. > >> On 11/17/2013 03:13 PM, Thomas Reisinger wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Instead of h.261, I would recommend h.263 as a common base. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Thomas >> Sent from mobile device >> >>> On 17 Nov 2013, at 20:54, Maik Merten <maikmerten@googlemail.com <mailto:maikmerten@googlemail.com> > wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> just wondering if something like >>> >>> "9. All entities SHOULD support both H.264 and VP8. All entities MUST at least implement one of those. Entities that do not support both H.264 and VP8 MUST implement H.261." >>> >>> has already popped up. My reasoning is that implementations supporting both high performance codecs will always negotiate to use on of those - H.261 should never be relevant there. >>> >>> It appears that all implementors are willing to implement either H.264 or VP8 (but not necessarily both). This obviously means that negotiation failure regarding a high-performance codec is a possiblity. In this case H.261 is actually useful so that basic video calls can still be established (for instance, I guess deaf people may always appreciate a video connection, as long as sign language can be transmitted). >>> >>> >>> Maik >>> >>> >>> Am 14.11.2013 12:37, schrieb Jeremy Fuller: >>>> Hi, >>>> Gaining IETF consensus on making it mandatory to support only H.264 or >>>> only VP8 has clearly failed. I would welcome anyone to share their >>>> thoughts on why they believe this situation will change anytime in the >>>> next few years. Therefore, can I suggest that we remove items 1 and 2 >>>> from the list. Hopefully this will speed up the process by focusing >>>> efforts towards gaining agreement on one of the remaining options. >>>> The following alternatives has been proposed: >>>> >>>> 1. All entities MUST support H.264 >>>> 2. All entities MUST support VP8 >>>> 3. All entities MUST support both H.264 and VP8 >>>> 4. Browsers MUST support both H.264 and VP8, other entities MUST >>>> support at least one of H.264 and VP8 >>>> 5. All entities MUST support at least one of H.264 and VP8 >>>> 6. All entities MUST support H.261 >>>> 7. There is no MTI video codec >>>> 8. All entities MUST support H.261 and all entities MUST support at >>>> least one of H.264 and VP8 >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Jeremy Fuller >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> rtcweb mailing list >>>> rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >>>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> > > > -- > Libre Video > http://librevideo.org > _______________________________________________ rtcweb mailing list rtcweb@ietf.org <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
- [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gonzalo Camarillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cb.list6
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Robin Raymond
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gustavo Garcia
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gonzalo Camarillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gonzalo Camarillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Jeremy Fuller
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Thomas Reisinger
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Thomas Reisinger
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Ross Finlayson
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Thomas Reisinger
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- [rtcweb] H.263 licensing situation Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- [rtcweb] Reference implementation of software cod… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Reference implementation of software… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Reference implementation of software… Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Steve Kann
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Monty Montgomery
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Matt Fredrickson
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Enrico Marocco
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward Matthew Kaufman
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- Re: [rtcweb] Video codec selection - way forward cb.list6
- [rtcweb] H.264 CBP (was: Video codec selection - … cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] H.264 CBP (was: Video codec selectio… Eric Rescorla
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