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Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP

Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu> Thu, 10 October 2019 07:40 UTC

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References: <CA+-tSzyUWzp-Rzb=GEjEU_OPVAQsH5+7MLMTU2x+zY3Mxi+LTw@mail.gmail.com> <201910101404176280661@zte.com.cn>
In-Reply-To: <201910101404176280661@zte.com.cn>
From: Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 00:40:26 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+-tSzx3GUfZPXEE7cyAYdDk+NR-VikZp0+uabmihKHdoMwuVA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP
To: xiao.min2@zte.com.cn
Cc: draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org, nvo3@ietf.org, rtg-bfd WG <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
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Hi Xiao Min,

In those cases, the term "VN" is used to talk about multiple IP interfaces
in a VRF.  The different interfaces would have to be different VNIs.

In the mixed case (with MPLS and L2 hitting the NVE at different VAPs), I'm
not sure how it would work in the same VNI.  If you think it's important, I
think it may be worth writing it up.  If there's enough merit in the use
case, we can figure out how to run multiple BFD sessions on the same VNI.

Anoop

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 11:06 PM <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn> wrote:

> Hi Anoop,
>
>
> Normally, it is. While Tenant Systems connect to NVE through IP routing
> network or MPLS forwarding network, it is not.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Xiao Min
> 原始邮件
> *发件人：*AnoopGhanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
> *收件人：*肖敏10093570;
> *抄送人：*draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org <draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org>;
> nvo3@ietf.org <nvo3@ietf.org>;rtg-bfd WG <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>;
> *日 期 ：*2019年10月10日 05:33
> *主 题 ：**Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP*
> Hi Xiao Min,
> Normally, I think of a VNI as a broadcast domain.  The only way I can make
> sense of the picture below is to have a separate VNI for each MPLS
> interface on the NVE.
>
> Anoop
>
> On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 11:09 PM <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn> wrote:
>
>> Hi Anoop,
>>
>>
>> In this use case there is no forwarding happens between the MPLS and
>> non-MPLS parts, would this use case be prohibited?
>>
>> If the answer is yes, then I agree that all Tenant Systems attached to a
>> common NVE MUST share a VAP so long as they connect to the same VN,
>> although in RFC8014 it uses "can" but not "MUST". As a result, we should
>> not allow multiple BFD sessions for the same VNI between two NVEs.
>>
>> If the answer is no, then we should allow multiple BFD sessions for the
>> same VNI between two NVEs. I personally lean to this answer.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Xiao Min
>> 原始邮件
>> *发件人：*AnoopGhanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
>> *收件人：*肖敏10093570;
>> *抄送人：*Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>;didutt@gmail.com <
>> didutt@gmail.com>;draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org <
>> draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org>;nvo3@ietf.org <nvo3@ietf.org>;
>> santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com <santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>;rtg-bfd WG <
>> rtg-bfd@ietf.org>;Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>;
>> tsridhar@vmware.com <tsridhar@vmware.com>;
>> *日 期 ：*2019年10月09日 06:28
>> *主 题 ：**Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP*
>> Hi Xiao Min,
>> The picture doesn't have enough information to explain why they are in
>> the same VNI, and exactly how forwarding happens between the MPLS and
>> non-MPLS parts.
>>
>> Anoop
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 12:31 AM <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Anoop,
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know such a draft that describes MPLS over Geneve, but I believe
>>> the following figure derived from figure 1 of RFC8014 would help, in the
>>> following figure Tenant System1, Tenant System2, Tenant System3 and Tenant
>>> System4 are assumed belonging to the same VNI, so two BFD sessions for the
>>> same VNI need to be run between NVE1 and NVE2.
>>>
>>>                                             +--------+
>>>                                        +----| Tenant |
>>>                                      ( ' )  | System1|
>>>             ................       ( MPLS ) +--------+
>>>             .              .  +--+-+ ( _ )
>>>             .              .--|NVE1|---+
>>>             .              .  |    |
>>>             .              .  +--+-+
>>>             .              .     |
>>>             .  L3 Overlay  .   ( ' )
>>>             .    Network   . (Ethernet)
>>>             .              .   ( _ )
>>>             .              .     |
>>>             ................    +--------+
>>>                |                | Tenant |
>>>              +----+             | System2|
>>>              |NVE2|             +--------+
>>>              |    |--------+
>>>              +----+        |
>>>                |           |
>>>              ( ' )       ( ' )
>>>            ( MPLS )    (Ethernet)
>>>              ( _ )       ( _ )
>>>                |           |
>>>            +--------+  +--------+
>>>            | Tenant |  | Tenant |
>>>            | System3|  | System4|
>>>            +--------+  +--------+
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Xiao Min
>>> 原始邮件
>>> *发件人：*AnoopGhanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
>>> *收件人：*肖敏10093570;
>>> *抄送人：*Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>;didutt@gmail.com <
>>> didutt@gmail.com>;draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org <
>>> draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org>;nvo3@ietf.org <nvo3@ietf.org>;
>>> santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com <santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>;rtg-bfd WG <
>>> rtg-bfd@ietf.org>;Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>;
>>> tsridhar@vmware.com <tsridhar@vmware.com>;
>>> *日 期 ：*2019年10月08日 12:15
>>> *主 题 ：**Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP*
>>> Hi Xiao Min,
>>> Is there a draft that describes MPLS over Geneve?  It sounds like the
>>> NVE is an MPLS router in this case and if you're using the same VNI as you
>>> switch MPLS, then it's a one-armed router.  That doesn't change how BFD
>>> needs to be run between NVEs.
>>>
>>> Anoop
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 7:28 PM <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Anoop,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the late response, I just come back from vacation.
>>>>
>>>> The use case is that the network between the VM and the NVE is an MPLS
>>>> network, within which the packet is forwarded basing on MPLS label, but not
>>>> Ethernet MAC address and/or 802.1Q VLAN. When two such kind of MPLS
>>>> networks need to communicate with each other, through a Geneve tunnel, the
>>>> encap I illustrated would be used.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Xiao Min
>>>> 原始邮件
>>>> *发件人：*AnoopGhanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
>>>> *收件人：*肖敏10093570;
>>>> *抄送人：*Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>;didutt@gmail.com <
>>>> didutt@gmail.com>;draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org <
>>>> draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org>;nvo3@ietf.org <nvo3@ietf.org>;
>>>> santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com <santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>;rtg-bfd WG
>>>> <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>;Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>;
>>>> tsridhar@vmware.com <tsridhar@vmware.com>;
>>>> *日 期 ：*2019年09月28日 05:36
>>>> *主 题 ：**Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP*
>>>> Hi Xiao Min,
>>>> Thanks for the details about the encap but the use case is not clear.
>>>> It might help if you explain why its necessary to map a physical Ethernet
>>>> port and/or 802.1Q VLAN to the same VNI as an MPLS packet without an L2
>>>> header.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Anoop
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 7:50 PM <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Anoop,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Due to the fact that a variety of Tunnels could be used under the NVO3
>>>>> architecture, as an example, below figure illustrates the format of
>>>>> MPLS packet over Geneve Tunnel.
>>>>>
>>>>>     0                   1                   2                   3
>>>>>     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>>>>>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>    |                                                               |
>>>>>    ~                      Outer Ethernet Header                    ~
>>>>>    |                                                               |
>>>>>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>    |                                                               |
>>>>>    ~                        Outer IPvX Header                      ~
>>>>>    |                                                               |
>>>>>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>    |                                                               |
>>>>>    ~                        Outer UDP Header                       ~
>>>>>    |                                                               |
>>>>>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>    |                                                               |
>>>>>    ~                          Geneve Header                        ~
>>>>>    |                                                               |
>>>>>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<-+
>>>>>    |                                                               |  |
>>>>>    ~                         MPLS Label Stack                      ~  M
>>>>>    |                                                               |  P
>>>>>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  L
>>>>>    |                                                               |  S
>>>>>    |                                                               |
>>>>>    ~                             Payload                           ~  P
>>>>>    |                                                               |  K
>>>>>    |                                                               |  T
>>>>>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<-+
>>>>>    |                               FCS                             |
>>>>>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Note that in NVO3 working group Greg and I have submitted an
>>>>> individual draft draft-xiao-nvo3-bfd-geneve, which is used to address BFD
>>>>> over Geneve.
>>>>>
>>>>> The intention is to make the two drafts draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan and
>>>>> draft-xiao-nvo3-bfd-geneve aligned, that is to say, we try to define the
>>>>> identical mechanism for the common part of BFD over VxLAN Tunnel and BFD
>>>>> over Geneve Tunnel. For the common part, draft-xiao-nvo3-bfd-geneve would
>>>>> reference to draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan, and for the other part specific to
>>>>> Geneve, we'll define the specific mechanism in draft-xiao-nvo3-bfd-geneve.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope that clarifies.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Xiao Min
>>>>> 原始邮件
>>>>> *发件人：*AnoopGhanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
>>>>> *收件人：*肖敏10093570;
>>>>> *抄送人：*Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>;didutt@gmail.com <
>>>>> didutt@gmail.com>;draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org <
>>>>> draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org>;nvo3@ietf.org <nvo3@ietf.org>;
>>>>> santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com <santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>;rtg-bfd
>>>>> WG <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>;Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>;
>>>>> tsridhar@vmware.com <tsridhar@vmware.com>;bfd-chairs@ietf.org <
>>>>> bfd-chairs@ietf.org>;
>>>>> *日 期 ：*2019年09月26日 23:16
>>>>> *主 题 ：**Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at
>>>>> VTEP*
>>>>> Hi Xiao Min,
>>>>> I think we would need more detail around the use case below.  What
>>>>> does the MPLS packet over Tunnel look like?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Anoop
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 11:37 PM <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Anoop,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your comments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Considering a scenario where TS1 has an MPLS access (i.e. MPLS-Packet
>>>>>> over Tunnel between NVEs) to VNI1, TS3 has an Ethernet access (i.e.
>>>>>> MAC-Frame over Tunnel between NVEs) to VNI1, then how can TS1 and TS3 share
>>>>>> one VAP?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Xiao Min
>>>>>> 原始邮件
>>>>>> *发件人：*AnoopGhanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu>
>>>>>> *收件人：*肖敏10093570;
>>>>>> *抄送人：*Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>;didutt@gmail.com <
>>>>>> didutt@gmail.com>;draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org <
>>>>>> draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org>;nvo3@ietf.org <nvo3@ietf.org>;
>>>>>> santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com <santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>;rtg-bfd
>>>>>> WG <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>;Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>;
>>>>>> tsridhar@vmware.com <tsridhar@vmware.com>;bfd-chairs@ietf.org <
>>>>>> bfd-chairs@ietf.org>;
>>>>>> *日 期 ：*2019年09月26日 08:36
>>>>>> *主 题 ：**Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at
>>>>>> VTEP*
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nvo3 mailing list
>>>>>> nvo3@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> Some people may argue that all Tenant Systems connecting to the same
>>>>>> Virtual Network MUST share one VAP, if that's true, then VAP1 and VAP3
>>>>>> should merge into one VAP and my explanation doesn't work. Copying to NVO3
>>>>>> WG to involve more experts, hope for your clarifications and comments.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would be one of those that would argue that they MUST share on VAP
>>>>>> if they connect to the same Virtual Network.  IMO, the NVO3 arch doc should
>>>>>> have been clearer about this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Anoop
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 7:40 PM <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Santosh,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With regard to the question whether we should allow multiple BFD
>>>>>>> sessions for the same VNI or not, IMHO we should allow it, more explanation
>>>>>>> as follows...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Below is a figure derived from figure 2 of RFC8014 (An Architecture
>>>>>>> for Data-Center Network Virtualization over Layer 3 (NVO3)).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                     |         Data Center Network (IP)        |
>>>>>>>                     |                                         |
>>>>>>>                     +-----------------------------------------+
>>>>>>>                          |                           |
>>>>>>>                          |       Tunnel Overlay      |
>>>>>>>             +------------+---------+       +---------+------------+
>>>>>>>             | +----------+-------+ |       | +-------+----------+ |
>>>>>>>             | |  Overlay Module  | |       | |  Overlay Module  | |
>>>>>>>             | +---------+--------+ |       | +---------+--------+ |
>>>>>>>             |           |          |       |           |          |
>>>>>>>      NVE1   |           |          |       |           |          | NVE2
>>>>>>>             |  +--------+-------+  |       |  +--------+-------+  |
>>>>>>>             |  |VNI1 VNI2  VNI1 |  |       |  | VNI1 VNI2 VNI1 |  |
>>>>>>>             |  +-+-----+----+---+  |       |  +-+-----+-----+--+  |
>>>>>>>             |VAP1| VAP2|    | VAP3 |       |VAP1| VAP2|     | VAP3|
>>>>>>>             +----+-----+----+------+       +----+-----+-----+-----+
>>>>>>>                  |     |    |                   |     |     |
>>>>>>>                  |     |    |                   |     |     |
>>>>>>>                  |     |    |                   |     |     |
>>>>>>>           -------+-----+----+-------------------+-----+-----+-------
>>>>>>>                  |     |    |     Tenant        |     |     |
>>>>>>>             TSI1 | TSI2|    | TSI3          TSI1| TSI2|     |TSI3
>>>>>>>                 +---+ +---+ +---+             +---+ +---+   +---+
>>>>>>>                 |TS1| |TS2| |TS3|             |TS4| |TS5|   |TS6|
>>>>>>>                 +---+ +---+ +---+             +---+ +---+   +---+
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To my understanding, the BFD sessions between NVE1 and NVE2 are
>>>>>>> actually initiated and terminated at VAP of NVE.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the network operator want to set up one BFD session between VAP1
>>>>>>> of NVE1 and VAP1of NVE2, at the same time another BFD session between VAP3
>>>>>>> of NVE1 and VAP3 of NVE2, although the two BFD sessions are for the
>>>>>>> same VNI1, I believe it's reasonable, so that's why I think we
>>>>>>> should allow it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, in RFC8014 it also says:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Note that two different Tenant Systems (and TSIs) attached to a common NVE can share a VAP (e.g., TS1 and TS2 in Figure 2) so long as they connect to the same Virtual Network."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some people may argue that all Tenant Systems connecting to the same
>>>>>>> Virtual Network MUST share one VAP, if that's true, then VAP1 and VAP3
>>>>>>> should merge into one VAP and my explanation doesn't work. Copying to NVO3
>>>>>>> WG to involve more experts, hope for your clarifications and comments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Xiao Min
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nvo3 mailing list
>> nvo3@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
>>
>
>

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