Re: WG Adoption request for draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand

Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> Mon, 18 February 2019 16:24 UTC

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Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 11:23:50 -0500
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Cc: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@nokia.com>, rtg-bfd WG <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: WG Adoption request for draft-mirsky-bfd-mpls-demand
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References: <20181121222755.GC23096@pfrc.org> <CA+RyBmWeRoySs4a8he5ZGMz-_FDjzTeHMCd_4WksDSCqB5aEYw@mail.gmail.com> <20181210220953.GA6053@pfrc.org> <CA+RyBmW+pxqk6OmT4H1233XY-T7O06azGodUNu24Pu22aqhtMg@mail.gmail.com> <20190216163154.GC28950@pfrc.org> <CA+RyBmUp0jhNjPFO_xgdm_1dNnxYSiNhBfCsoVJKNj6rOFRjvw@mail.gmail.com> <20190216184510.GF28950@pfrc.org> <CA+RyBmUHm5YnbuFp6oiXUVnVS+0kfSW8xdJqjwC+HiP_WfqKBA@mail.gmail.com> <20190218152544.GG28950@pfrc.org> <CA+RyBmUGwZj0AuQWT+atzeN9uR4i5ffpzeKsMM_fRYB5BVmFVw@mail.gmail.com>
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On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 07:32:30AM -0800, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
> could you please clarify which of your roles, BFD WG chair or individual
> contributor, you are in this discussion.

In this case I am speaking as a chair.

For the Working Group to adopt a draft, it needs to solve a problem.  In
this case, changes to the protocol.  We are asking you what changes there
are to the protocol.  Please answer that question.

In the prior adoption call, IPR declaration concerns were one of the
considerations for some respondents as to whether we should adopt this or
not.  You answered those, and the licensing in the current IPR declaration
is the in the form that is the most agreeable from a licensing perspective,
especially for open source implementors.

Again, the only motivation to inquire about the IPR at this point is that
there appears to be no protocol changes in your draft.  If you are asserting
IPR, it implies that there is something new.  If there's something new, it
should be reflected as protocol changes in your draft.  Even if you're not
to the point where you or the IPR holder can disclose, the draft itself must
be clear.

If you have any further concerns beyond the above with specific regard to my
stance as chair on the IPR considerations, I strongly suggest you request
Martin to ask the IESG to have the IETF legal group intervene.  This would
be preferable to further aspersions to implicit bias.  Please note that IETF
legal will be asking similar questions to the above.

-- Jeff




> 
> Regards,
> Greg
> 
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 7:26 AM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
> 
> > Greg,
> >
> > Answering this message with the reply partially reorganized.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 04:40:31PM -0800, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> > > On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 10:46 AM Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
> > > > > GIM>> The behavior of the system in Demand mode is introduced as
> > > > optional.
> > > > > And that is precisely the update to RFC 5880.
> > > >
> > > > I don't understand.
> > > >
> > > > Basically, 5880, 5884 leave demand as an option.  It's built into the
> > > > specs.
> > > > It's unclear what you're suggesting being changed.
> > > >
> > > GIM2>> RFC 5884 leaves the Demand mode outside its scope. RFC 5884 does
> > not
> > > discuss how the Demand mode may be used in BFD over MPLS LSPs.
> >
> > Even thought the RFC says demand mode is out of scope, 5880 is clear about
> > how demand mode works.  I'm not seeing anything in your draft that alters
> > that procedure.
> >
> > Basically, no draft is needed for a one-liner: you can use demand mode.
> >
> > > GIM2>> Is the fact that the patent application is not yet published the
> > > sole foundation for your objection to adopting this draft as Chair of BFD
> > > WG or as an individual contributor? Is there any IETF document that
> > > requires that the patent must be published before the draft can be
> > adopted
> > > or published as RFC?
> >
> > The sole reason for mentioning this is demand mode is clear.  BFD over mpls
> > is clear.  You're asserting some sort of IPR on things that are already
> > clear.  So, either your draft itself is unclear on some new thing you're
> > asserting IPR on, or you're not actually covering something new.  That's
> > it.
> >
> > -- Jeff
> >