Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP
"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Fri, 02 August 2019 22:17 UTC
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Subject: Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VTEP
To: Dinesh Dutt <didutt@gmail.com>
Cc: Santosh P K <santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, rtg-bfd WG <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "T. Sridhar" <tsridhar@vmware.com>, bfd-chairs@ietf.org, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@nokia.com>, draft-ietf-bfd-vxlan@ietf.org
References: <CA+RyBmW=byLBNfVQSdaEoMf-QnJtj13k788XhbZ9tqH4bcgqNQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAOPNUTBJztjmNgrDyHgMo8-nRazAaXACGJJZ6Lx8z8aRVBM+GA@mail.gmail.com> <CA+RyBmWrM3v37BO8O_VOGG-NJ+UbrtSVQ_2GwW0R+vLkxbtvHw@mail.gmail.com> <CACi9rdvKTLwBQn9mcJksGTW79QTFj0d45DOpDT1Jee4QpGnv3Q@mail.gmail.com> <c57a3cf3-ab77-99df-0f78-104edef3275c@joelhalpern.com> <CACi9rdubTnzgCVZK0syRf3fsrpTU45SpQV57n2rNcNCqk+3+7Q@mail.gmail.com> <CACi9rdsmP8SFwP+Her45XKFwQZ3SQgwLpr62kAY-kP4vZtnFnQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAOPNUTD4nQ4YROxUA9hxdTFOtv4XpmazA=apm2ceuCxt3yM=XA@mail.gmail.com> <bf019ac6-2580-7f9e-66c4-5a24c1b2eb2b@joelhalpern.com> <CAOPNUTC=q4O=QUhFFiuv8UnU1uuCjHYkJV-Oha07NTJ_X7SODQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 18:17:05 -0400
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Your response seems to miss two points: First, the problem you describe is not what the document says it is solving. To the degree it discusses it at all, the document says " In most cases, a single BFD session is sufficient for the given VTEP to monitor the reachability of a remote VTEP, regardless of the number of VNIs in common. " Second, you assume the existence of an IP address for a VTEP within a VNI. As with the MAC address, the VTEP does not have an IP address within the VNI. Some implementations may have created such a thing, but the general construct, as defined to date, does not support such. In short, you are requiring a behavior that violates the architectural structure of overlay / underlay separation, and common usage. And you are doing so to support a use case that the working group has not indicated in the document as important. Yours, Joel On 8/2/2019 5:01 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote: > Joel, > > You understood correctly. > > The VNIs may not share fate due to misconfiguration. And I strongly > suspect someone will want to use BFD for that because its about checking > path continuity as stated by the draft. As long as there's a valid IP > (because it's BFD) owned by the VTEP in that VNI, you can use BFD in > that VNI. Thats all that you need to dictate. That IP address has a MAC > address and you can use that on the inner frame. That is all normal > VXLAN processing. The outer IP is always that of the VTEP. > > Dinesh > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 11:03 AM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com > <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote: > > If I am reading your various emails correctly Dinesh (and I may have > missed something) you are trying to use the MAC address because you > want > to be able to send these BFD packets over arbitrary VNI to monitor the > VNI. That is not a requirement identified in the document. It is not > even a problem I understand, since all the VNI between an ingress and > egress VTEP share fate. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 8/2/2019 1:44 PM, Dinesh Dutt wrote: > > Thanks for verifying this. On Linux and hardware routers that I'm > aware > > of (Cisco circa 2012 and Cumulus), the physical MAC address is > reused > > across the VNIs on the VTEP. Did you check on a non-VMW device? > This is > > more for my own curiosity. > > > > To address the general case, can we not define a well-known (or > reserve > > one) unicast MAC address for use with VTEP? If the MAC address is > > configurable in BFD command, this can be moot. > > > > Dinesh > > > > On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 10:27 AM Santosh P K > > <santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com > <mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com> > <mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com > <mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>> wrote: > > > > I have cross checked point raised about MAC address usage. It is > > possible that tenant could be using physical MAC address and > when a > > packet comes with valid VNI with a MAC address that is being > used by > > tenant then packet will be sent to that tenant. This rules > out the > > fact that we could use physical MAC address as inner MAC to > ensure > > packets get terminated at VTEP itself. > > > > Thanks > > Santosh P K > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 11:00 AM Santosh P K > > <santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com > <mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com> > <mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com > <mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>> > > wrote: > > > > Joel, > > Thanks for your inputs. I checked implementation within > > Vmware. Perhaps I should have been more clear about MAC > address > > space while checking internally. I will cross check again for > > the same and get back on this list. > > > > Thanks > > Santosh P K > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 10:54 AM Joel M. Halpern > > <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com> > <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote: > > > > Sorry to ask a stupid question. Whose implementation? > > > > The reason I ask is that as far as I can tell, since the > > tenant does not > > have any control access to the VTEP, there is no > reason for > > the VTEP to > > have a MAC address in the tenant space. Yes, the > device has > > a physical > > MAC address. But the tenant could well be using that MAC > > address. Yes, > > they would be violating the Ethernet spec. But the whole > > point of > > segregation is not to care about such issues. > > > > On the other hand, if you tell me that the VMWare > > implementation has an > > Ethernet address that is part of the tenant space, well, > > they made up > > this particular game. > > > > Yours, > > Joel > > > > On 7/31/2019 1:44 PM, Santosh P K wrote: > > > I have checked with implementation in data path. > When we > > receive a > > > packet with valid VNI then lookup for MAC will > happen and > > it is VTEP own > > > MAC then it will be trapped to control plane for > > processing. I think we > > > can have following options > > > 1. Optional managment VNI > > > 2. Mandatory inner MAC set to VTEP mac > > > 3. Inner IP TTL set to 1 to avoid forwarding of packet > > via inner IP > > > address. > > > > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > Thansk > > > Santosh P K > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 9:20 AM Greg Mirsky > > <gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com> > <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>> > > > <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com > <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com> > > <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com > <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Dinesh, > > > thank you for your consideration of the > proposal and > > questions. What > > > would you see as the scope of testing the > > connectivity for the > > > specific VNI? If it is tenant-to-tenant, then > VTEPs > > will treat these > > > packets as regular user frames. More likely, these > > could be Layer 2 > > > OAM, e.g. CCM frames. The reason to use 127/8 for > > IPv4, and > > > 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104 for IPv6 is to safeguard > > from leaking > > > Ethernet frames with BFD Control packet to a > tenant. > > > You've suggested using a MAC address to trap the > > control packet at > > > VTEP. What that address could be? We had proposed > > using the > > > dedicated MAC and VTEP's MAC and both raised > concerns > > among VXLAN > > > experts. The idea of using Management VNI may > be more > > acceptable > > > based on its similarity to the practice of using > > Management VLAN. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Greg > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:03 PM Dinesh Dutt > > <didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com> > <mailto:didutt@gmail.com <mailto:didutt@gmail.com>> > > > <mailto:didutt@gmail.com > <mailto:didutt@gmail.com> <mailto:didutt@gmail.com > <mailto:didutt@gmail.com>>>> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Greg, > > > > > > As long as the inner MAC address is such > that the > > packet is > > > trapped to the CPU, it should be fine for > use as > > an inner MAC is > > > it not? Stating that is better than trying to > > force a management > > > VNI. What if someone wants to test > connectivity > > on a specific > > > VNI? I would not pick a loopback IP > address for > > this since that > > > address range is host/node local only. Is > there a > > reason you're > > > not using the VTEP IP as the inner IP > address ? > > > > > > Dinesh > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 5:48 AM Greg Mirsky > > > <gregimirsky@gmail.com > <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com> > > <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com > <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>> <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com > <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com> > > <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com > <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>>> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > thank you for your comments, > suggestions on > > this issue, > > > probably the most challenging for this > > specification. In the > > > course of our discussions, we've agreed to > > abandon the > > > request to allocate the dedicated MAC > address > > to be used as > > > the destination MAC address in the inner > > Ethernet frame. > > > Also, earlier using VNI 0 was changed from > > mandatory to one > > > of the options an implementation may > offer to > > an operator. > > > The most recent discussion was whether > VTEP's > > MAC address > > > might be used as the destination MAC > address > > in the inner > > > Ethernet frame. As I recall it, the > comments > > from VXLAN > > > experts equally split with one for it > and one > > against. Hence > > > I would like to propose a new text to > resolve > > the issue. The > > > idea is to let an operator select > Management > > VNI and use > > > that VNI in VXLAN encapsulation of BFD > > Control packets: > > > NEW TEXT: > > > > > > An operator MUST select a VNI > number to > > be used as > > > Management VNI. VXLAN packet for > > Management VNI MUST NOT > > > be sent to a tenant. VNI number 1 is > > RECOMMENDED as the > > > default for Management VNI. > > > > > > With that new text, what can be the > value of > > the destination > > > MAC in the inner Ethernet? I tend to > believe > > that it can be > > > anything and ignored by the reciever VTEP. > > Also, if the > > > trapping is based on VNI number, the > > destination IP address > > > of the inner IP packet can from the range > > 127/8 for IPv4, > > > and for IPv6 from the range > > 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:7F00:0/104. And > > > lastly, the TTL to be set to 1 (no > change here). > > > > > > Much appreciate your comments, > questions, and > > suggestions. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Greg > > > > > >
- BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at VT… Greg Mirsky
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Greg Mirsky
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Santosh P K
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Santosh P K
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Greg Mirsky
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Greg Mirsky
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Santosh P K
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Greg Mirsky
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Greg Mirsky
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Greg Mirsky
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Greg Mirsky
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Greg Mirsky
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… T. Sridhar
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Santosh P K
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Greg Mirsky
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Santosh P K
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Santosh P K
- Re:BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at… xiao.min2
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re:[nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control pa… xiao.min2
- Re:[nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control pa… xiao.min2
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re:[nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control pa… xiao.min2
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Santosh P K
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Santosh P K
- Re:[nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control pa… xiao.min2
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re:BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet at… xiao.min2
- Re:[nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control pa… xiao.min2
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Joel M. Halpern
- Re:[nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control pa… xiao.min2
- Re:[nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control pa… xiao.min2
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re:[nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control pa… xiao.min2
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re:[nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control pa… xiao.min2
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re:[nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control pa… xiao.min2
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re:[nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control pa… xiao.min2
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control packet a… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Joel M. Halpern
- RE: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… John E Drake
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Joel Halpern Direct
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Greg Mirsky
- Re:[nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control pa… xiao.min2
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Santosh P K
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Santosh P K
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Santosh P K
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Santosh P K
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Dinesh Dutt
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Selvakumar Sivaraj
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Selvakumar Sivaraj
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [nvo3] BFD over VXLAN: Trapping BFD Control p… Santosh P K