Re: I wonder what is being going on

William Atwood <william.atwood@concordia.ca> Wed, 13 March 2019 03:03 UTC

Return-Path: <william.atwood@concordia.ca>
X-Original-To: rtgwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtgwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 545DA12705F for <rtgwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 20:03:30 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.534
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.534 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NCbonem4U48F for <rtgwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 20:03:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.96.92]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 348AB1277DB for <rtgwg@ietf.org>; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 20:03:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [IPv6:::1] (bill@poise.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.2.209] port 21698) by oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (envelope-from william.atwood@concordia.ca) (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id x2D33GdL028736; Tue, 12 Mar 2019 23:03:16 -0400
Subject: Re: I wonder what is being going on
To: Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>, shyam bandyopadhyay <shyamb66@gmail.com>
Cc: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, rtgwg@ietf.org
References: <CAPTMOt+jvTbrH1_YOmXJ0YQpLB5LdePekwkd2HyvLMLfGbnpZQ@mail.gmail.com> <04F9E6B4-2398-400E-8BB9-21935AE14845@cooperw.in> <CAPTMOtKcPnwv9bD4xbRB1h=HwddDe1RznwApL-kf_NV1b0NbRA@mail.gmail.com> <AE84BD0A-EC90-4DF1-9285-AECC43737643@gmail.com>
From: William Atwood <william.atwood@concordia.ca>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Organization: Concordia University, Montreal
Message-ID: <9c27cfc3-811a-b846-b55f-0d3211a9d5d0@concordia.ca>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 23:03:16 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <AE84BD0A-EC90-4DF1-9285-AECC43737643@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca at 2019-03-12 23:03:17 EDT
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtgwg/CKzpReZ3TT8HPJRtDjQHpNiJh7Y>
X-BeenThere: rtgwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Routing Area Working Group <rtgwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtgwg>, <mailto:rtgwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rtgwg/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtgwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg>, <mailto:rtgwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2019 03:03:30 -0000

Shyam,

Specifically:

Marcelo Bagnulo, Alberto Garcia-Martinez, Juan Rodriguez, and Arturo
Azcorra, "The Case for Source Address Dependent Routing in Multihoming",
International Workshop on Quality of Future Internet Services (QofIS
2004), Lecture Notes in Computer Science (LNCS, volume 3266).

The authors were at Universidad Carlos III de Madrid, Leganes, Madrid,
Spain at the time of writing.

This was published in 2004, so your claim to be the first one to put
forth this idea is incorrect.

However, as Fred says, RFC citations are based on "need to know", not
academic precedence.

  Bill Atwood

On 12/03/2019 10:31 p.m., Fred Baker wrote:
> On Mar 12, 2019, at 1:13 AM, shyam bandyopadhyay <shyamb66@gmail.com> wrote:
>>  I have said many times earlier that the
>>  basic principle based on which RFC 8028, RFC 8043
>>  and draft-ietf-rtgwg-enterprise-pa-multihoming
>>  are written, i. e. "default routing based on
>>  source address of outgoing packets" was first
>>  introduced on draft-shyam-site-multi.
> 
> Speaking for myself, having the position of a co-author on two of the documents you mention.
> 
> I have not inserted a reference into the documents for the simple reason that I was unaware of draft-shyam-site-multi and my thinking didn't depend on it. When I insert a reference into a paper, it's not in the academic sense in which one lists all possible mention of a topic and comments to associate with it or differentiate from it; I refer to a document to help explain some aspect of my thinking, or to lead a reader to some other technology that my thinking depends on. To give an example in the context of another paper, I mention that someone should validate a DNSSEC signature at some point, and I refer to RFC 4035 because it discusses what that means and how one goes about it.
> 
> The earliest mention of source-dependent routing that I know of is academic work done by Marcelo Bagnulo at (I believe) the University of Madrid, in Spain.
> 
> I'm sorry if that is offensive; for my part, it is pragmatic. I'm not writing a thesis, I'm writing a specification. I don't pretend to know everything. I do try to state clearly what I mean when I write something, and give my readers the references they need to understand and use it.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> rtgwg mailing list
> rtgwg@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg
> 

-- 

Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng.             tel:   +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046
Distinguished Professor Emeritus  fax:   +1 (514) 848-2830
Department of Computer Science
   and Software Engineering
Concordia University EV 3.185     email:william.atwood@concordia.ca
1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West    http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill
Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8