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Re: Kathleen Moriarty's Discuss on draft-ietf-rtgwg-yang-key-chain-20: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Thu, 27 April 2017 14:29 UTC

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References: <149322447211.30122.5870367500760951821.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <f366eb05-b82c-123e-d0ca-8701fe16a469@nostrum.com> <CAHbuEH5vDjZ5tSt=314Dquju7N26XSOqQPNjV=jO6D8Xn7QVdQ@mail.gmail.com> <89d1c702-7830-1f5a-1176-0b894e2d99e9@nostrum.com> <CAHbuEH5OX-GiwF7zqWmks5k6yLj5SXvXwYVFjCChrsa_ckokwQ@mail.gmail.com> <f6ac64b0-1e50-b02f-7043-8cae2cd56020@nostrum.com> <CAHbuEH7B=bzknZnfF_qsE435peOOd8XYjd=YKREeXw0RW18aGA@mail.gmail.com> <0c744357-0d94-62a8-c16b-81a02ef5db45@nostrum.com> <CAG4d1reMAu0YmTfPnStYFx1DotDpwnuGP3BM8ks5-YA1XxrKtA@mail.gmail.com> <d4fa3596-8ff5-5d31-41c3-10e189d553b0@nostrum.com> <CAG4d1recAczYUczXSw9w8=RT6ijE2fkc1FoRVF5_s-g1EaDe=w@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBNQ=kwZZf6gUa_r1hJEscn+T11=mu3P1ACjjggMhkivHA@mail.gmail.com> <D5277644.ABE74%acee@cisco.com>
From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 07:28:01 -0700
Message-ID: <CABcZeBPiQ+EGvfipoqqA3v_04XOg-M_hnE4yptyNMnNBXYVtXg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kathleen Moriarty's Discuss on draft-ietf-rtgwg-yang-key-chain-20: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>, "rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org" <rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-rtgwg-yang-key-chain@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-rtgwg-yang-key-chain@ietf.org>, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>
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On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

>
>
> From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
> Date: Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 10:17 AM
> To: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
> Cc: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>, "rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org" <
> rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-rtgwg-yang-key-chain@ietf.org" <
> draft-ietf-rtgwg-yang-key-chain@ietf.org>, Kathleen Moriarty <
> kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Jeff
> Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Routing WG <rtgwg@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: Kathleen Moriarty's Discuss on draft-ietf-rtgwg-yang-key-chain-20:
> (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
> Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
> Resent-To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Jeffrey Zhang <zzhang@juniper.net>,
> Derek Yeung <derek@arrcus.com>, Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.qu@huawei.com>,
> Ing-Wher Chen <Ing-Wher_Chen@jabil.com>
> Resent-Date: Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 10:17 AM
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 7:15 AM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/26/17 23:02, Alia Atlas wrote:
>>>
>>>> First, the YANG model is primarily for information in motion - either
>>>> for configuration to the device
>>>> or to read from the device.   It is much less likely to represent the
>>>> data structure and storage in the device.
>>>> I believe that this draft's context is strictly for information in
>>>> motion.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks; I understand all that. I'm trying to focus on the final
>>> paragraph of section 5, though, which appears to be an exception to what
>>> you say above.
>>
>>
>> I don't understand why - IMHO, that paragraph is simply saying  - this
>> model passes keys around (in motion).  Of course, a system shouldn't store
>> such keys unencrypted.  From what Acee says, this "motherhood and apple
>> pie" additional advice was added due to secdir review.
>>
>
> I thought Adam's point was that storing keys encrypted with a key that's
> adjacent to them was not useful.
>
>
> Right. I’m not sure what the definition of “adjacent” is here since it is
> very implementation specific. I will remove the final paragraph in the next
> revision when I add KEK back (assuming we can agree on reasonable guidance
> and which RFC to reference). What I’m strongly opposed to is pushing this
> back in the process for such a change.
>

I'm not arguing for any particular outcome, merely making a technical
observation about what is and is not useful from a security perspective.

-Ekr


> Acee
>
>
> -Ekr
>
>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alia
>>
>>
>>
>>> /a
>>>
>>>
>>
>

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