[saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: RFCs vs Standards
"Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com> Tue, 10 December 2024 20:07 UTC
Return-Path: <rsalz@akamai.com>
X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECF4EC180B46; Tue, 10 Dec 2024 12:07:16 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.251
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.251 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.148, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WUtJAoGTDBYi; Tue, 10 Dec 2024 12:07:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9005:57f::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24F4AC151094; Tue, 10 Dec 2024 12:07:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0050096.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0050096.ppops.net-00190b01. (8.18.1.2/8.18.1.2) with ESMTP id 4BAHQSD4024598; Tue, 10 Dec 2024 20:07:12 GMT
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=akamai.com; h=cc :content-id:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to; s= jan2016.eng; bh=lENAweh0HcTcvE6mJ0Hr8Seyf2lOBDhvCDQ8gydg2NQ=; b= gQ1B7TE98ncPCd2TUwf8Ag6wa7DGtJsQQc8fsDD6aQIrH+u82HnbfLKFYBuiEOEy +XX218Wymv/QeYO8rnTNDmAIq2gf4JN8TjMRcvPzK1R1OmYmtikuOpuaL+XiAf0c t8WaGhfILYH1KOagLTqt/Mc+/F5QXHmEV19Kdfo0Ne8M0aDSepAaik+LBHQSAkTS KHfGn4hvbEP28wuh1H5d0PV+2BKOypE7jsXDZVanJMiELvbR4uChS4UxcMRHdMrY CJQV8vRhiCWjwa1Icgk9NK/SVRjjVa2E5zvvTHKOA89KekQP3mFNZX91fcCPTZQd pKubBEdANtLJDlcGurhhEQ==
Received: from prod-mail-ppoint3 (a72-247-45-31.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com [72.247.45.31] (may be forged)) by m0050096.ppops.net-00190b01. (PPS) with ESMTPS id 43cfnfww5q-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 10 Dec 2024 20:07:11 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from pps.filterd (prod-mail-ppoint3.akamai.com [127.0.0.1]) by prod-mail-ppoint3.akamai.com (8.18.1.2/8.18.1.2) with ESMTP id 4BAGNjaa012308; Tue, 10 Dec 2024 15:07:11 -0500
Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.50.201]) by prod-mail-ppoint3.akamai.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 43d452cy9g-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 10 Dec 2024 15:07:11 -0500
Received: from ustx2ex-dag4mb4.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.50.203) by ustx2ex-dag4mb2.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.50.201) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.1544.11; Tue, 10 Dec 2024 12:07:10 -0800
Received: from ustx2ex-dag4mb4.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.50.203]) by ustx2ex-dag4mb4.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.50.203]) with mapi id 15.02.1544.011; Tue, 10 Dec 2024 12:07:10 -0800
From: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, John Mattsson <john.mattsson=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [rfc-i] Re: [saag] RFCs vs Standards
Thread-Index: AQHbSzyUbf/7pLK1EkCdS7xf6nE/8bLgGgCA
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2024 20:07:10 +0000
Message-ID: <C74E3E9D-E892-48B4-87BE-CD634081AA23@akamai.com>
References: <BE95E617-C929-43BA-BB40-41E189A8158B@akamai.com> <87ldxl5zp9.fsf@kaka.sjd.se> <26424.40383.605711.370013@fireball.acr.fi> <71bcb4f8-e147-a6cb-3c67-b6daef61f309@mindrot.org> <26439.33533.129915.244853@fireball.acr.fi> <SY8P300MB0711C796AB6095C788556516EE292@SY8P300MB0711.AUSP300.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <15450.1732763286@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <3029EB03-6E7A-47CB-9682-F511CB51EE17@akamai.com> <10065.1732826193@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <CACsn0cmWVeFdJ3dzMj5SV4XpJF4rssULtfQ1moeefoq-Evhk=g@mail.gmail.com> <CAGL5yWb=tLvMOYFKT3ffVbcy7BAD=i4B0VHEUdkvwRvZ3X3Bsw@mail.gmail.com> <m2mshh4v8l.wl-randy@psg.com> <CABcZeBMjxNbBMYU2p3_a8-5VCExgmY-7XLof7die05YOEX-38A@mail.gmail.com> <70419651-6443-4393-9ca1-8a1c98a68db0@cs.tcd.ie> <CABcZeBNtBRxi5zSf9OvUip2AtyVD6Wt9+kQESuUzo-=Kur9+ZQ@mail.gmail.com> <fac981d9-2fe9-4a84-8af1-845acd72af58@cs.tcd.ie> <14124.1733073164@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <d52ee080-814b-46fd-9e0f-41349941eeac@cs.tcd.ie> <GVXPR07MB9678DF2C14EA44B28C3DA372893D2@GVXPR07MB9678.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <F304B6BA-6969-4C62-A217-88E76F82CDC2@tzi.org>
In-Reply-To: <F304B6BA-6969-4C62-A217-88E76F82CDC2@tzi.org>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.91.24111613
x-originating-ip: [172.27.164.43]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <021ACC48D9E5A04DA90D9980AAE2277D@akamai.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.293,Aquarius:18.0.1057,Hydra:6.0.680,FMLib:17.12.68.34 definitions=2024-12-10_12,2024-12-10_01,2024-11-22_01
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=748 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2411120000 definitions=main-2412100145
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: bSh4Fd4_IG7PQ2tLEfRUvrAe2Ou6Fw5y
X-Proofpoint-GUID: bSh4Fd4_IG7PQ2tLEfRUvrAe2Ou6Fw5y
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.293,Aquarius:18.0.1039,Hydra:6.0.680,FMLib:17.12.60.29 definitions=2024-09-06_09,2024-09-06_01,2024-09-02_01
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=493 clxscore=1011 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2411120000 definitions=main-2412100145
Message-ID-Hash: T54GRM34RJVUL4HY53FUALTC5XS2GE5S
X-Message-ID-Hash: T54GRM34RJVUL4HY53FUALTC5XS2GE5S
X-MailFrom: rsalz@akamai.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-saag.ietf.org-0; header-match-saag.ietf.org-1; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: "rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org" <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>, Paul Wouters <paul.wouters=40aiven.io@dmarc.ietf.org>, IETF SAAG <saag@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: RFCs vs Standards
List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group <saag.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/saag/4kdpbefFmrvl-sLJ04ODNTkUGX8>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/saag>
List-Help: <mailto:saag-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:saag-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:saag@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:saag-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:saag-leave@ietf.org>
On 2024-12-10, at 13:52, John Mattsson <john.mattsson=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org <mailto:40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: > • Internet-drafts are obviously "permanent and readily available", I don’t see why that is debated. For registries wanting RFCs there is “RFC required”. I am against any registry saying that "permanent and readily available" internet-drafts are NOT OK, but pointing to a website outside of the IETF is… On 12/10/24, 2:49 PM, "Carsten Bormann" <cabo@tzi.org <mailto:cabo@tzi.org>> wrote: > This. > There really can’t be any discussion on the facts here. Except that the boilerplate in every internet draft says "It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as 'work in progress'" and some people have a problem with using a work in progress as the defining reference for an IANA registry. I think the solution to that is to fix the boilerplate somehow.
- [saag] FW: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft… Simon Josefsson
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Simon Josefsson
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Tero Kivinen
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Damien Miller
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Simon Josefsson
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Tero Kivinen
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Michael Richardson
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Stephen Farrell
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Peter Gutmann
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Michael Richardson
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Peter Gutmann
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Michael Richardson
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Watson Ladd
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… D. J. Bernstein
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Watson Ladd
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Watson Ladd
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… D. J. Bernstein
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Randy Bush
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Michael Jones
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Randy Bush
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Alan DeKok
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… D. J. Bernstein
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Damien Miller
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Stephen Farrell
- [saag] Side-comment: SSH issues (was: New Version… Peter Gutmann
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Stephen Farrell
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Simon Josefsson
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Simon Josefsson
- [saag] RFCs vs Standards Michael Richardson
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… D. J. Bernstein
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: RFCs vs Standards Stephen Farrell
- [saag] Re: RFCs vs Standards John Mattsson
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Peter Gutmann
- [saag] Re: RFCs vs Standards Carsten Bormann
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: RFCs vs Standards Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Carsten Bormann
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Tim Bray
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards StJohns, Michael
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Brian E Carpenter
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: RFCs vs Standards Brian E Carpenter
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Carsten Bormann
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Peter Gutmann
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Joel Halpern
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Behcet Sarikaya
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: RFCs vs Standards Brian E Carpenter
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Martin Thomson
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Michael Richardson
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Alan DeKok
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Carsten Bormann
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: RFCs vs Standards Watson Ladd
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Simon Josefsson
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards S Moonesamy
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Joel Halpern
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards John Mattsson
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Randy Bush
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Carsten Bormann
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Randy Bush
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Carsten Bormann
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: Re: Re: RFCs vs Standa… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: Re: Re: RFCs vs Standa… Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: Re: Re: RFCs vs Standa… Tero Kivinen
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RFCs vs St… touch@strayalpha.com
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: Re: Re: RFCs vs Standa… Phillip Hallam-Baker