[saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsalz-crypto-registries-00.txt

Paul Wouters <paul.wouters@aiven.io> Fri, 29 November 2024 03:13 UTC

Return-Path: <paul.wouters@aiven.io>
X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73E8CC14F6F4 for <saag@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Nov 2024 19:13:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.105
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.105 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=aiven.io
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dO1SuFQprQXw for <saag@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Nov 2024 19:13:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ej1-x62c.google.com (mail-ej1-x62c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B525C14F6F2 for <saag@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Nov 2024 19:13:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ej1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-aa5302a0901so159884966b.0 for <saag@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Nov 2024 19:13:08 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aiven.io; s=google; t=1732849987; x=1733454787; darn=ietf.org; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=r0B0hKROA8nrus3Rk9HNnr56B4vxvOtRsbxtuD9t80M=; b=Wmnk79aVvaLLWwmLPdVV40pq/Q6uJRwLd3g0sGR/Yq8Ur+ay/ympLY/6ABNphE+DLy 7RkvZaeVgY05fiXI7siI4KxYG7KfVvxXcfJISesWcpEOUdlpO/2L3VVBiMKvULUu4v0N 2DH3SaL55bbAyQuHu+6B8U2bsyQh4aoJiD2Q0=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1732849987; x=1733454787; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=r0B0hKROA8nrus3Rk9HNnr56B4vxvOtRsbxtuD9t80M=; b=rxUvg/DeLM1ezg5IRheYPl393PXokfkv/yb6k5UQGGUQW2u4kirSNzT4nMMeF0ZPqt vBpB3k7fZ772S+dDSZgqIuWDK2Zw/S3hvoG437+Huq+AVQ4pCxjBhNSrMrduUT3UFSSO jg+Us3qFuXqLrRbf7R0qBc90GTn27kSh8BMy0ADItD9fS+nZ3/2ngfCgBRlSS+5ZyeWK 48Ct7X1e/xQ8JQE6HHqwQJrjLWBtNR89vCHpumMLxzpJKty+tiXK4f+T+ds1MAWp5/ZY TxzS7ZImU4G/v5AjaSkRlI8kaOpO2EWhtnMjvyIVZAJMFK6THAdrklNk2zF1Rwa7c37m NLzA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy4y/+aygRG0QBx/l4cHHCy/q2IjxhTTuqJ0jqQGW2F9FZhjXbd L4AIwzot0/OkQ7I16Q+sEsGg/kPSxw3TswXOZ94OTEaNK7URgPaKC6K7v3BjXtleC/LeP89EN77 O1Gr2RZV+evK6NPliU1dbkIe/6E19xFNtRENkhNOyKeZZZtZpKYR7lwrwRAlHBEMOOLbFvnG5L9 kK4iwCUDE+yqvANYKTx7qNviOHaiysIA==
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctCR3DD3IygbcrOwWrQHVGm9cBZZwvcLSUc/lOibfQ+gyvkZvj8EKrz0Y1nCVh Ay0noYOq6n/Jl0WquaQuRnIJl1b6+5tnfpQ9eZq2aGuwr3fOCYYliRUuxz1TYgM+QxP72wpyxtp +bh95IKlgqTxvCe5iAz99Sdsu9vjPFbRweq3gtjf5P6BgFdlJIXojqvljw5EawP29di5gt1E/kB iDwGAEM3qM3hfEKO3JADLLOeUcYSWV7TvbdBMq9uPSUHkzlA5rRDAYuyg45aDwkwbU=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEKoVxd21Hj3SnW7wjNiWKAiJ6Yrd4G+alujFFOCvvtqbkELHxMpfm0p6bLBUAG/dx/+WEwPw==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:2192:b0:aa5:3f53:ad57 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-aa580f266f1mr721563966b.19.1732849986841; Thu, 28 Nov 2024 19:13:06 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtpclient.apple ([74.122.52.94]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-aa599800a99sm123977566b.87.2024.11.28.19.13.06 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 28 Nov 2024 19:13:06 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: Paul Wouters <paul.wouters@aiven.io>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2024 22:12:52 -0500
Message-Id: <E0077799-325E-49D8-A22E-BF173E3F9C81@aiven.io>
References: <20241129011355.1048701.qmail@cr.yp.to>
In-Reply-To: <20241129011355.1048701.qmail@cr.yp.to>
To: "D. J. Bernstein" <djb@cr.yp.to>
X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (21H16)
Message-ID-Hash: NBKSG7HQ4WUEYLLVPFRW5RZGHNAIKHDZ
X-Message-ID-Hash: NBKSG7HQ4WUEYLLVPFRW5RZGHNAIKHDZ
X-MailFrom: paul.wouters@aiven.io
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-saag.ietf.org-0; header-match-saag.ietf.org-1; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: saag@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsalz-crypto-registries-00.txt
List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group <saag.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/saag/MtRs4sLZnzKAXRi9KuFYXNQPzk8>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/saag>
List-Help: <mailto:saag-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:saag-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:saag@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:saag-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:saag-leave@ietf.org>


> On Nov 28, 2024, at 20:14, D. J. Bernstein <djb@cr.yp.to> wrote:
> 
> Paul Wouters writes:
>> The rough consensus is that there is no appetite for NTRUprime.
> 
> Um, what? There are multiple interoperable NTRU Prime implementations
> for SSH, plus NTRU Prime implementations for various other protocols.
> The SSHM WG adopted draft-josefsson-ntruprime-ssh earlier this month:

i was talking about the IETF, not SSH.

> BCP 79 includes the following requirement:

> I'd think that the ADs are responsible for enforcing this BCP 79
> requirement.

The cryptographer constantly repeating their mistaken interpretation doesn't make it true.

> Instead the ADs seem to be _encouraging_ having Kyber as
> the only post-quantum encryption option.

That is willful misrepresentation. If that cryprographer listened to what the AD said and wrote about the preferred methods of cryptography adoption in the IETF and separated that from their personal desire to promote their own cryptography, that cryptographer should be able correct their mistaken view.

> We've
> already seen the same patent minefield causing years of delays in
> post-quantum rollout, even without any patent holders having filed
> lawsuits yet.

Apparently that cryptographer's view of IPR dangers is not a widely shared concern.

Paul