Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG"

Thanks for the update Roman.

FWIW, I will repeat that imo the new WG's charter should include SSH initially. CURDLE ended up focusing on SSH as well. If participants want to focus on more orphaned protocols for PQ migration then we could add DNSSEC, JSON Signatures, Kerberos or more. CURDLE initially wanted to focus one some of those as well, but it ended up working only on SSH. So, the new WG could start small and update the charter as necessary. SSH is a good chunk of work in itself. 

Please note that NIST Round 3 will pick its first KEM in the next couple of weeks and it would benefit the community to bring PQ-hybrid and auth to SSH like other WGs are doing for IKEv2 and (D)TLS already.

Rgs,
Panos

-----Original Message-----
From: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 8:02 AM
To: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>om>; saag@ietf.org
Cc: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG"

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.

Hi Panos!

No updates.  While there is concrete charter text describing the mechanics of how such a hypothetical WG would operate, it doesn't describe what protocols would be in scope for the initial body of work.  Progress is blocked pending identification of such initial milestones (i.e., what protocols need a PQC re-design but don't have an existing WG to address it).

Feedback continues to be welcome on this list (saag@ietf).  I've been trying to keep a running summary of the PQC work in the IETF at https://trac.ietf.org/trac/sec/wiki/PQCAgility.

Regards,
Roman

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 11:08 PM
> To: saag@ietf.org
> Cc: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>rg>; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
> Subject: RE: [saag] Re: About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG"
>
> Hi Roman, Ben,
>
> Just resurrecting this thread from a few months back.
>
> Do you know if there will be any updates or progress on this new WG by 
> IETF- 113?
>
> Thanks,
> Panos
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Sheehe, Charles J. 
> (GRC-
> LCN0)
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:19 AM
> To: saag@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] [EXTERNAL] Re: About the "Draft text 
> for a PQ Maintenance WG"
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do 
> not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender 
> and know the content is safe.
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> I think the charter looks fine.
>
> Thanks
> Chuck
>
> Charles J. Sheehe III
> Computer Engineer
> Secure Networks, System
> Integration and Test Branch (LCN)
> Glenn Research Center
> 21000 Brookpark Rd
> Cleveland, OH 44135
> Charles.J.Sheehe@NASA.GOV Email
> Charles.J.Sheehe@NSS.SGov.Gov SIPRmail
> Office: 216-433-5179
>      It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how 
> the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.
>
>     The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose 
> face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who 
> errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort 
> without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the 
> deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends 
> himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the 
> triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at 
> least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
> Theodore Roosevelt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 2:23 PM
> To: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>om>; Salz, Rich 
> <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>rg>; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>du>; 
> saag@ietf.org
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ 
> Maintenance WG"
>
> Hi!
>
>
>
> We've heard this confusion on using the "maintenance" short hand to 
> characterize this potential body of work.  The intent was what Panos 
> described
> - a short hand where the "maintenance" was on existing IETF protocol 
> to allow it to benefit from PQC mechanisms.
>
>
>
> The proposed, templated charter language more precisely captures the 
> intent -- "The [Planned WG Name] working group ([Planned WG Acronym]) 
> is chartered as a WG to analyze, adapt or update IETF protocols, 
> registries, and associated code points with PQ cryptographic mechanisms."
> (https://github.com/rdanyliw/ietf-pq-maintenance/blob/main/pqm-charter
> .md 
> <https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.
> com%2Frdanyliw%2Fietf-pq-maintenance%2Fblob%2Fmain%2Fpqm-
> charter.md&data=04%7C01%7CCharles.J.Sheehe%40nasa.gov%7Cd092f22f99e
> c48fe1a1a08d983764e40%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7
> C0%7C637685366837666194%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w
> LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdat
> a=mJG8R%2FPW8OcWxEdkDGyJ1P0DxvUhWd2XODuf55oYDSM%3D&reserved
> =0> ).  I've removed "PQ maintenance" from the header of the templated 
> charter.  It now reads "PQC Agility WG".  The term didn't appear in 
> the charter text itself.  However, to eliminate all possible c  
> onfusion I also the one instance of maintenance by s/protocol maintenance/protocol changes/.
>
>
>
> Roman
>
>
>
> From: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos@amazon.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:53 PM
> To: Salz, Rich <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>rg>; Roman Danyliw 
> <rdd@cert.org>rg>; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>du>; saag@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ Maintenance WG"
>
>
>
> Maybe maintenance is the wrong word, but the point is to have a WG for 
> orphaned (without a WG) protocols like CURDLE was for Curve25519/448.
>
>
>
> From: saag <saag-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:saag-bounces@ietf.org> > On 
> Behalf Of Salz, Rich
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:41 PM
> To: Ludovic Perret <ludovic.perret@cryptonext-security.com
> <mailto:ludovic.perret@cryptonext-security.com> >; Roman Danyliw 
> <rdd@cert.org <mailto:rdd@cert.org> >; Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu 
> <mailto:kaduk@mit.edu> >; saag@ietf.org <mailto:saag@ietf.org>
> Cc: Kampanakis, Panos <kpanos=40amazon.com@dmarc.ietf.org
> <mailto:kpanos=40amazon.com@dmarc.ietf.org> >
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [saag] About the "Draft text for a PQ 
> Maintenance WG"
>
>
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do 
> not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender 
> and know the content is safe.
>
>
>
> I find the concept of post-quantum *maintenance* very strange.
>
>
>
>
>
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