From: "Paterson, Kenny" <Kenny.Paterson@rhul.ac.uk>
To: David Lloyd-Jones <david.lloydjones@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [saag] NIST requests comments on using ISO/IEC 19790:2012 as the
 U.S. Federal Standard for cryptographic modules
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Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 11:31:08 +0000
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Subject: Re: [saag] NIST requests comments on using ISO/IEC 19790:2012 as
 the U.S. Federal Standard for cryptographic modules
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Err, no. ISO documents are notorious for not being free. In this case, the =
asking price is 178 Swiss Francs. Not exorbitant but not free either. (Yeah=
, it's free to read the abstract.)

Kenny

On 15 Aug 2015, at 12:24, David Lloyd-Jones <david.lloydjones@gmail.com<mai=
lto:david.lloydjones@gmail.com>> wrote:

Stephen,

None of
http://csrc.nist.gov/news_events/#aug12
http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/PubsFIPS.html#140-2
http://www.iso.org/iso/home/store/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumbe=
r=3D52906
http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=3D52906

is behind a paywall.

What is it you have "heard," Stephen, that has given Phil this avalanche of=
 "reason to object"?

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the documentation within those catalogue=
s costs money.  There was a time in the early days of Oracle when the docs =
for their basic database software cost US$6,000.  I paid US$92 for my IBM e=
quivalent a few years ago, but these are not paywalls.  They are costs of o=
perating docs.

(I suspect that that $6,000 was because Larry knew he was working the Ameri=
can taxpayer over just one time, and in 1983 that was still real money to h=
im: gas for the motorbike, not the jet.)

Is it a question of that sort of thing?

Parenthetically, I notice that the correspondence thread "Information Secur=
ity" over on Google+ has recently fractured in two, I would guess because t=
he main feed is full of juvenile ranting.

-dlj.



On 15 August 2015 at 04:23, Phil Lello <phil@dunlop-lello.uk<mailto:phil@du=
nlop-lello.uk>> wrote:
I'm not in the US or trading with US companies, so presumably not affected,=
 but the paywall alone sounds like a reasonable grounds to object to me - i=
t prevents reasonable review by people with no reason to buy the standard, =
and presumably also creates a smaller pool of suppliers (since it will elim=
inate those who don't buy the spec). {snipped}
_______________________________________________
saag mailing list
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>
</head>
<body dir=3D"auto">
<div><span></span></div>
<div>
<div>Err, no. ISO documents are notorious for not being free. In this case,=
 the asking price is 178 Swiss Francs. Not exorbitant but not free either. =
(Yeah, it's free to read the abstract.)<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Kenny</div>
<div><br>
On 15 Aug 2015, at 12:24, David Lloyd-Jones &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:david.llo=
ydjones@gmail.com">david.lloydjones@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Stephen,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>None of&nbsp;</div>
<a href=3D"http://csrc.nist.gov/news_events/#aug12" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//csrc.nist.gov/news_events/#aug12</a><br>
<div><a href=3D"http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/PubsFIPS.html#140-2" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/PubsFIPS.html#140-2</a><br>
</div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.iso.org/iso/home/store/catalogue_tc/catalogue_de=
tail.htm?csnumber=3D52906" target=3D"_blank">http://www.iso.org/iso/home/st=
ore/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=3D52906</a><br>
</div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=3D5290=
6" target=3D"_blank">http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=
=3D52906</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>is behind a paywall.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What is it you have &quot;heard,&quot; Stephen, that has given Phil th=
is avalanche of &quot;reason to object&quot;?</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I wouldn't be surprised if some of the documentation within those cata=
logues costs money.&nbsp; There was a time in the early days of Oracle when=
 the docs for their basic database software cost US$6,000.&nbsp; I paid US$=
92 for my IBM equivalent a few years ago,
 but these are not paywalls.&nbsp; They are costs of operating docs. &nbsp;=
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(I suspect that that $6,000 was because Larry knew he was working the =
American taxpayer over just one time, and in 1983 that was still real money=
 to him: gas for the motorbike, not the jet.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Is it a question of that sort of thing?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Parenthetically, I notice that the correspondence thread &quot;Informa=
tion Security&quot; over on Google&#43; has recently fractured in two, I wo=
uld guess because the main feed is full of juvenile ranting.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>-dlj.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 August 2015 at 04:23, Phil Lello <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phil@dunlop-lello.uk" target=3D"_blank">phil=
@dunlop-lello.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">I'm not in the US or trading with US companies, so presuma=
bly not affected, but the paywall alone sounds like a reasonable grounds to=
 object to me - it prevents reasonable review by people with no reason to b=
uy the standard, and presumably also
 creates a smaller pool of suppliers (since it will eliminate those who don=
't buy the spec). {snipped}</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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