IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [saag] can an on-path attacker drop traffic?

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Wed, 04 November 2020 19:18 UTC

Return-Path: <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E437E3A0EE0 for <saag@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 11:18:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.146
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.146 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.247, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P3bQTHe6VqDG for <saag@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 11:18:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 499943A0D44 for <saag@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 11:18:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A3EE38AA1 for <saag@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 14:18:56 -0500 (EST)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id zW697XGsd1rU for <saag@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 14:18:55 -0500 (EST)
Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9942538A9F for <saag@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 14:18:55 -0500 (EST)
Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0F645DF for <saag@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Nov 2020 14:18:51 -0500 (EST)
To: saag@ietf.org
References: <4645.1599064072@localhost>
From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
Message-ID: <931546a3-6ce7-6de4-5e33-283930728c61@sandelman.ca>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 14:18:51 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <4645.1599064072@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/saag/m1r9uo4xYznOcf85Eyk0Rhut598>
Subject: Re: [saag] can an on-path attacker drop traffic?
X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group <saag.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/saag>, <mailto:saag-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/saag/>
List-Post: <mailto:saag@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:saag-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag>, <mailto:saag-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 19:18:56 -0000

This thread started at:

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/saag/FR9WP9Y-73QZVX6Org-ciNDwM0w/

In 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/saag/wTtDYlRAADMmgqd6Vhm8rFybr_g/ 
EKR proposed:

   QUIC ended up with a different taxonomy:
   On-path   [Dolev-Yao]
   Off-path
   Limited on-path (cannot delete)

In 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/saag/b26jvEz4NRHSm-Xva6Lv5-L8QIA/ 
Christian Huitema proposed:
   man-in-the-middle   [Dolev-Yao]
   man-on-the-side
   man-in-the-rough

Many liked this, minus "man". In previous discussions of the "MAN" in 
MITM, some suggested "Malory-in-the-middle".

In 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/saag/R0uevzT0Vz9uqqaxiu98GtK1rks/ 
Alan DeKok proposed the "the council of attackers"

    malicious messenger [Dolev-Yao: who rewrites messages sent]
    oppressive observer [who uses your information against you]
    chaos creator       [who just breaks things so you can't use them]

   Adding: "Alliteration is cute, and helps with memory.  :)"

v2.2.1 | Report a Bug | By Email