Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CALIPSO, labeled NFSv4)
Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com> Sat, 04 April 2009 19:42 UTC
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Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 14:39:29 -0400
To: Santosh Chokhani <SChokhani@cygnacom.com>, saag@ietf.org
From: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
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Cc: labeled-nfs@linux-nfs.org, nfsv4@ietf.org, nfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
Subject: Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CALIPSO, labeled NFSv4)
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Santosh: There may be things that can be kept for this environment, especially if all of the clients of a particular file system are probably operating under a single security policy. If you can eliminate policy mapping and markings that must be hidden from some clients, then a subset of the SPIF may be useful. Russ At 01:36 PM 4/3/2009, Santosh Chokhani wrote: >Russ, > >My thinking was that the features of SPIF that are not needed could be >discarded. > >I was hoping that we could help the group save the baby and throw out >the bath water. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Russ Housley [mailto:housley@vigilsec.com] > > Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 12:45 PM > > To: Santosh Chokhani; saag@ietf.org > > Cc: labeled-nfs@linux-nfs.org; nfs-discuss@opensolaris.org; > > nfsv4@ietf.org; selinux@tycho.nsa.gov > > Subject: Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on > > CALIPSO, labeled NFSv4) > > > > I really do not have time to write about all of my concerns. > > However, once you get beyond the basic classifications, the > > SPIF model breaks. They are markings that are only to be > > known to people that have the clearance for those markings, > > this leads to a SPIF distribution nightmare, as a subset of > > the real SPIF must be given out based on access (or not) to > > various compartments and such. It just does not scale. > > > > Russ > > > > At 11:22 AM 4/3/2009, Santosh Chokhani wrote: > > >As part of MISSI and DMS, in mid to late 90's we did work on > > something > > >called Security Policy Information File (SPIF). > > > > > >At high level SPIF entailed the following: > > > > > >1. It was ASN.1 based. > > >2. It permitted you to convert the machine representation to human > > >readable representation. > > >3. It permitted you to convert the human readable input to machine > > >representation. > > >4. It mapped labels (hierarchical sensitivity levels and > > >non-hierarchical categories) from one labeling policy to > > another (i.e., > > >establish equivalency mapping) 5. It allowed you to > > constrain labels > > >since for some policies, existence of a category may mean some > > >categories, levels, may be included and/or excluded. > > > > > >Different labeling policies were indicated by different policy OID. > > > > > >Some of the concept from that work may be applicable here. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: saag-bounces@ietf.org > > [mailto:saag-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > > > > Of Nicolas Williams > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 11:44 AM > > > > To: saag@ietf.org > > > > Cc: labeled-nfs@linux-nfs.org; selinux@tycho.nsa.gov; > > > > nfsv4@ietf.org; nfs-discuss@opensolaris.org > > > > Subject: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on > > CALIPSO, labeled > > > > NFSv4) > > > > > > > > Over at the NFSv4 WG we've been having a discussion of a labeled > > > > NFSv4 proposal. [Note: NFSv4 WG and others cc'ed, > > > > Reply-To: set to SAAG.] > > > > > > > > An interop issue has arisen that we believe applies equally to > > > > CALIPSO (draft-stjohns-sipso-11.txt)and requires input > > from the IETF > > > > security area. > > > > > > > > The issue is: how do do nodes in a labeled > > network/application know > > > > if they agree on a common labeled security policy for a given DOI? > > > > > > > > Agreeing on a DOI is accomplished easily enough -- that's not an > > > > issue. > > > > Agreeing on what a given numeric sensitivity level or compartment > > > > bit means in a given DOI is quite another. > > > > Without a solution to this we're left with out-of-band agreement, > > > > which leaves interop in a lurch. > > > > > > > > I think we need a generic MLS and DTE labeled security policy > > > > document format that allows a DOI to define the names and numeric > > > > assignments of sensitivity levels, compartments, etcetera. > > > > > > > > We also need a way for nodes to agree that they have the > > same policy > > > > for a given DOI, or that they agree on a common subset of a DOI's > > > > policy. > > > > > > > > This last problem can be solved by use of a labeled > > security policy > > > > URI scheme that includes a version number (+ a requirement that > > > > changes be in the form of additions and obsolescence of old > > > > assignments, but not removals). > > > > > > > > To recap: I think we need a) a common MLS and DTE labeled > > security > > > > policy document format, b) a labeled security policy URI > > scheme to > > > > refer to such documents by. > > > > > > > > Given (a) and (b) NFSv4.x clients and servers would only have to > > > > exchange {DOI #, policy URI} tuples to determine whether > > they agree > > > > on a common policy. > > > > > > > > Note that CALIPSO describes how to encode and compare MLS > > labels on > > > > the wire, but it does not describe how nodes agree on the > > meaning of > > > > particular sensitivity levels or compartments. Therefore > > CALIPSO is > > > > going to have much the same problem as NFSv4. > > > > > > > > Nico > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > saag mailing list > > > > saag@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >saag mailing list > > >saag@ietf.org > > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag > > > >
- [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CALIPS… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Shawn Campbell
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Russ Housley
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Kurt Zeilenga
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Russ Housley
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Kurt Zeilenga
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Sean Turner
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Russ Housley
- Re: [saag] Common labeled security (comment on CA… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] [Labeled-nfs] Common labeled security … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] [Labeled-nfs] Common labeled security … Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] [Labeled-nfs] Common labeled security … Casey Schaufler
- Re: [saag] [Labeled-nfs] Common labeled security … Casey Schaufler
- Re: [saag] [Labeled-nfs] Common labeled security … Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] [nfsv4] [Labeled-nfs] Common labeled s… James Morris
- Re: [saag] [Labeled-nfs] Common labeled security … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] [Labeled-nfs] Common labeled security … Casey Schaufler
- Re: [saag] [nfsv4] [Labeled-nfs] Common labeled s… Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] [Labeled-nfs] Common labeled security … Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [saag] [Labeled-nfs] Common labeled security … Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] [Labeled-nfs] Common labeled security … Jarrett Lu
- Re: [saag] [Labeled-nfs] Common labeled security … James Morris
- Re: [saag] [Labeled-nfs] Common labeled security … Nicolas Williams
- Re: [saag] [Labeled-nfs] Common labeled security … Casey Schaufler